This is gonna be good: von Adlercreutz and Taotao

[reddog]

Ok, this one I didn't see coming lol The thing is, with 6 special resources and a fp this city can be good a anything it wants to. as a NE-city it actually has 5 tiles with 3 or more food without farming grasslands. As a commerce city it has gems and can cottage 9 tiles. And as a hammer city it has lots of single hammers here and there, 4 hills (1 copper), a plains cow and lots of workshop/watermill potential. I'd say that no matter what we do it'll remain somewhat of a hybrid, but personally I think I'd be inclined to set it up for hammers. After all, we do need to produce an army from somewhere...

Ususaly i want my NE to produce something fast,great persons ,and the city which you want is on the front with DZ so from there unist will get faster to the front, and right now i think the beter thing to do because that city grows fast is to get someo cotages down ,whip city grow on cotages again so we get some tech going and same time get production.And as i said everithing is green and there we can plant another city to share some cotages so I think is beter going for that.

Uuaky my NE is a city with 2+ good food resource and bad land but here there is not that much so one of cities need to be that one in the end so we still can discuss but i think we will war before getting one and perhaps we find a beter one in dz land and use this cities to get comerce and production.

[taotao]

Usualy my NE is a city with 2+ good food resource and bad land but here there is not that much so one of cities need to be that one in the end so we still can discuss but i think we will war before getting one and perhaps we find a beter one in dz land and use this cities to get comerce and production.

I'm ok with delaying the decision for now. Usually I put my NE in some fairly crappy fishing village and grow on coast (with 2 fish or something) between sets (of usually caste) with starving out GP (especially during GAs). Here coast will be so good once we've gotten dykes in though that I'd prefer to put it in an inland city. Had that future city east of Jutas only had slightly better food resources (say a wet corn instead of plains sheep) that would've made a decent option, but no such luck.
In Jutas I can agree on a few cottages in the north west, but I want mines on the hills before that. (We'll push out a fair number of settlers/workers from the city which are better served by mines. Also, when whipping troops we'll grow faster than our happy cap can take it so then I'd also prefer the mines...)

Edit: I take it you're not planning to move our capital to Jutas eventually? If so, then it needs to be cottaged of course, but I don't think it'll be worth it...

[taotao]

I'm not saying we need to do this, but I was just checking...

In pb18 TBS founded confucianism on t73.
He later managed to shrine that and it brought him:
32g on t127
50g on t147
117g on t192

Of course, getting a Great Prophet wouldn't be easy for us. (We probably would need to build Anchor Wat or something...)
And I see the main point of religion as getting access to OR (and to a lesser extent happiness).
I'm just pointing out that we know a third of the field, but none of the religion founders and there's the potential of an opportunity in ten turns time or something

[reddog]

Usualy my NE is a city with 2+ good food resource and bad land but here there is not that much so one of cities need to be that one in the end so we still can discuss but i think we will war before getting one and perhaps we find a beter one in dz land and use this cities to get comerce and production.

I'm ok with delaying the decision for now. Usually I put my NE in some fairly crappy fishing village and grow on coast (with 2 fish or something) between sets (of usually caste) with starving out GP (especially during GAs). Here coast will be so good once we've gotten dykes in though that I'd prefer to put it in an inland city. Had that future city east of Jutas only had slightly better food resources (say a wet corn instead of plains sheep) that would've made a decent option, but no such luck.
In Jutas I can agree on a few cottages in the north west, but I want mines on the hills before that. (We'll push out a fair number of settlers/workers from the city which are better served by mines. Also, when whipping troops we'll grow faster than our happy cap can take it so then I'd also prefer the mines...)

Edit: I take it you're not planning to move our capital to Jutas eventually? If so, then it needs to be cottaged of course, but I don't think it'll be worth it...

from my experince working food, cotages, and whiping has a beter return then working mines, so for now dont think worth building mines then in special resouces and maybe were a mine can be shared.Later when land is full and cities go pas size 6 whiing is not more efective anymore so will work mines then.Working cotages is good cause we want to expand as fast as we can and we need money to suport and keeping a hight tech rate.Becasue of the land near jutas and because city will grow fast working cotages and whiping i think will have agreat return.And more then that workers are already there prepared to lay down 2 cotages for now.

[taotao]

from my experince working food, cotages, and whiping has a beter return then working mines, so for now dont think worth building mines then in special resouces and maybe were a mine can be shared.Later when land is full and cities go pas size 6 whiing is not more efective anymore so will work mines then.Working cotages is good cause we want to expand as fast as we can and we need money to suport and keeping a hight tech rate.Becasue of the land near jutas and because city will grow fast working cotages and whiping i think will have agreat return.And more then that workers are already there prepared to lay down 2 cotages for now.

Well, I was just thinking, we currently have a happy cap of 7 in Jutas and we're not planning on increasing that cap for a while (unless we claim gold). Every whip will further reduce that cap as a food surplus of 10 will make us grow very quickly. If we whip units it would at this stage mostly be 1pop whips (apart from the first) as well...

In other news you seem to have been right about REM:



There's at least one unit in that last spike as well and he whipped twice this last turn so we might need some spears.
I started moving up the one from Jutas, but we might have to start another after the worker in Revolahti and/or put 5h into a spear as the first thing in our new city...

As for our city by the gems... I thought about this for a really long time and I think we need to improve the plains cow first with the workers. We could improve the pigs straight away, but that would mean not having a trade connection (=2g/t) until much later. If we build a granary first it's possible to time the cow alternative pretty well with a granary-whip from size 2 to 1 without need to find extra workers for forest chops or similar (workers would improve our wet wheat as their second action in the city).

Tiny mistake on my part this turn was moving the chariot outside borders instead of to the forest, that means 1g lost due to supply costs.

[taotao]

In international news I should also mention that we've made contact with Cheater Haters scout by our northern borders (might've been shown in a screenshot already?). Sadly I really can't tell for sure where he comes from as most people seem to have contact with everyone, he might even be DZs neighbour to the south... (watch out if Elkad declare on anybody else shortly).

On that point it should also be mentioned that we haven't done much in terms of scouting yet. A pair of workboats would probably be in order soon, (but then again, might it be better to wait for open borders now?)

[reddog]

I'm not saying we need to do this, but I was just checking...

In pb18 TBS founded confucianism on t73.
He later managed to shrine that and it brought him:
32g on t127
50g on t147
117g on t192

Of course, getting a Great Prophet wouldn't be easy for us. (We probably would need to build Anchor Wat or something...)
And I see the main point of religion as getting access to OR (and to a lesser extent happiness).
I'm not just pointing out that we know a third of the field, but none of the religion founders and there's the potential of an opportunity in ten turns time or something

You right, getting confucianism would be huge for us and getting AW shuldnt be that hard.If we plan for going without burocracy(and i think is the right way )we dont need an academy as well so if get confucianism second GPerson will be for the shrine.

We could get Confu before IW as we will not have the pop readay to work gems anyway and for sure is realy worth and this will make sure that in ga we can adopt for example : hereditary rule, vasalage,OR

[taotao]

I'm not saying we need to do this, but I was just checking...

You right, getting confucianism would be huge for us and getting AW shuldnt be that hard.If we plan for going without burocracy(and i think is the right way )we dont need an academy as well so if get confucianism second GPerson will be for the shrine.

We could get Confu before IW as we will not have the pop readay to work gems anyway and for sure is realy worth and this will make sure that in ga we can adopt for example : hereditary rule, vasalage,OR

Oh, nice if you like the idea

Looking at potential competition for the religion I see these people as possibly the likeliest candidates to go for it:
1. Krill
Generally likes an early religious route, but hasn't gotten a religion yet in this game. Also is spiritual which generally benefits from religion. On the other hand, aggressive means he doesn't need it for border pops, he's in a turn split with someone at the moment so might have other priorities and there's even a tiny possibility that he might beeline his awesome CKNs.
2. Dtay
Will get a prophet from Stonehenge eventually. Has every reason to go to priesthood (Sumeria), but not much incentive to get CoL (apart from the shrine).
3. Yuri
Has expanded quickly, but lacks a good method to pop borders. Is spiritual just as Krill. I believe he would go the currency route though, so then it's only a matter of who techs faster...
4. Barteq
Doesn't need it otherwise, but is protective for cheap granaries and has sacrificial altars at CoL...

So strong enough players that it's far from a sure thing, but I still believe we're in with a shot.

[reddog]

Well even if we loose the race COL is a good tech for us ase we have cheap courthoses.Reading graphs i can say for sure REM power is not that great he has 2 techs which gave huge boosts.I made some moves i need to think for others we need to wait anyway for rem to move first , i was considering if he doewnst move the wariour from our borders to kill it.

As for the city near wheat , becasue is great city whit huge potential i was considering improving cows and choping 2 forest into granary so we have granary build when food is at half so we grow very fast with it.Maybe growing to size 7 and not even whiping as he ahs great tiles just a think to consider.

[taotao]

Well even if we loose the race COL is a good tech for us ase we have cheap courthoses.Reading graphs i can say for sure REM power is not that great he has 2 techs which gave huge boosts.I made some moves i need to think for others we need to wait anyway for rem to move first , i was considering if he doewnst move the wariour from our borders to kill it.

As for the city near wheat , becasue is great city whit huge potential i was considering improving cows and choping 2 forest into granary so we have granary build when food is at half so we grow very fast with it.Maybe growing to size 7 and not even whiping as he ahs great tiles just a think to consider.

Sorry, for some reason didn't read here before logging in so hadn't read what you had written
We could easily kill REMs warrior, but not this turn as I moved the units (the axe so that it can cover the worker if it moves to forest and roads that tile and the chariot 1N on its way further north as a sentry for incoming troops/settlers (alternative being sending the axe in new city "Pulkkila" further northeast)).
The advantage of killing the warrior would be to deny REM some scouting information and not have to worry about covering workers against him. The disadvantage again being that we might annoy a person who has just researched a relatively expensive war tech... Different people react very differently to such a thing. A person like Gav might see it as a weakness if we don't, some people (like you?) think it's fair practice and some feel that we've pissed in their breakfast cereal and want bloody vengeance. As for REM I don't think he's the most upset of the lot, but he might not see it as the friendliest act either...
If he turns away I think we might let him live, but if he stays/scouts in an annoying manner I definitely don't mind killing him.

As for the city. In theory I don't mind chopping two forests into granary, but we don't have any first ring forests and only 1 forest second ring currently within the borders of Revolahti. Also, unless you get an early third worker from somewhere we will already be reaching size two before any chops have time to come in. I also wouldn't mind growing the city quickly, but I think we might need a whip or two simply to keep up with tile improvements.