This is gonna be good: von Adlercreutz and Taotao

[reddog]

I'm hoping that this is all a big misunderstanding and you accidentally forgot to change research back after testing some different paths, but I hope you at least see why I might be upset.


It was totaly a mistake man, i just cheked the time Iw will get it and i belived i put it back into col.And i belived you or I will log in back later as well , soryy for the mistake i dont know how that happened.

I understund you are upset and i didnt want to force your hand no way , is not my way to do things in worst case i gather 'my toys ' and i go home but i will never do something like that.

I would say commodore with mids will get Col like in 5-6 turs hiring 2-4 scientist which will gave him great power research.Anyway becasue of my mistake i am ready to retreat and sorry for incovenience.

[reddog]

I was considering maybe starting a market in revolati so we can grow the city as big as posible as we can get miliatry from lapua, i think we have the larger miliatry in the area as we dont have archery or IW?I seen your sign for city 3 alternative(i think we waste to much tiles that way) why not get another city there, will be a good one with forests were i put city 5...

[taotao]

I'm hoping that this is all a big misunderstanding and you accidentally forgot to change research back after testing some different paths, but I hope you at least see why I might be upset.

It was totaly a mistake man, i just cheked the time Iw will get it and i belived i put it back into col.And i belived you or I will log in back later as well , soryy for the mistake i dont know how that happened.

I understund you are upset and i didnt want to force your hand no way , is not my way to do things in worst case i gather 'my toys ' and i go home but i will never do something like that.

I would say commodore with mids will get Col like in 5-6 turs hiring 2-4 scientist which will gave him great power research.Anyway becasue of my mistake i am ready to retreat and sorry for incovenience.

Mistakes happen, I do them frequently myself. Next time, try to do ones that we're not having an argument about though

I think we will finish Ironworking now. The cost of IW and our chances of landing Confu both went down so I believe this is the best play going forward. After IW we can re-evaluate. [Probably going Sailing, but back to CoL (on the off chance nobody's researching it and for our cheap courthouses), Masonry, Construction or even Calendar are all on the table]

I was considering maybe starting a market in revolati so we can grow the city as big as posible as we can get miliatry from lapua, i think we have the larger miliatry in the area as we dont have archery or IW?

I was considering a market there as well. Happiness wouldn't be bad. The spear is actually intended to go to our new city that we're planting next turn though. I want to have 1 spear in both border cities against REM (who is quite aggressive, likes horses and has access to ha's). I don't think that Serdoa will attack us, but having one spear at hand there with touching borders seem like a minimum precautionary measure. Lapua might need to build military for our new cities in the SouthEast and at some point I'd also like to squeeze in a Barracks there.

I seen your sign for city 3 alternative(i think we waste to much tiles that way) why not get another city there, will be a good one with forests were i put city 5...

the area we're talking about is this:


By moving from "city 3" to "city 3 alt" we're letting go of 3 tiles that are outside any cities bfc. I don't give a crap about those tiles at the moment. They're 2 plains tiles and 1 grassland, none riverside. Late game (when we've hopefully reached conquerors plateau) we can found a filler 1E of furs for some extra production or something, but right now it wouldn't give us much.

Comparing the alternatives, ph-city shares food with Alavo, but I still don't see it as a faster starter than wheat-city. Wheat can borrow food from Jutas and cows and horses make for more than decent tiles to improve while waiting for the wet wheat.
Edit: And denying DZ "his" horses is definitely an interesting side benefit.

A note on general settling strategy:
At first I had planned not to settle this way in order to let Serdoa and DZ try to invade each other. However, DZ's ridiculously slow with his expansion (3 cities) and Serdoa is surprisingly not much better (5 cities). I think it'll be cheaper for us to take this area by quick early expansion rather than later conquest.

So why not settle "city 3" first and go here later?
Well, 1) Will it be available? (DZ has to expand soon right?) 2) Most good city sites are also on the east coast. I don't mind putting a city there, but I'm not sure I want "great" cities there as Serdoa will very easily be able to boat it. I'd rather have east coast cities chopping out workers and units (galleys?) and have minimal infrastructure.

[reddog]

As i seen from power serdoa has mostly archers if not only archers so getting a spear there is not necesary righ now on rem border will have a spear and enough warning to whip another one , and i amprety sure he wil l not atack us for a while.I was thinking why not get that market and after Iron working and get some archers which are cheaper and beter to defend city and move up a unit towards rem borders to gave us warning we have a prety good road system so we can retaliate.

About cities we can get one were our scout is or ch scout is aloads of forest realy fast to set up, and more than that plantin C3 were the sign is i think we can work the pig from Alvaro from the first turn , until something get improved .

Alvaro can work the cows and will chop the forest so when will be size 2 will have the granary builded without need for whip and from there will grow very fast.

What we plan to build in the city which just whiped a library? put some hamers into a chariot let it grow 2 sizes and start a setler and whiped 10 turns after? build a worker? We have room for 5 cities more so we need to plan next setlers.

Well if you afarid about boating we can go 1 inland but that will be a waste .I am all for minimun infra but with all that forest there we can get alot from that city and to be a pain in serdoa back.Getting a granary and a barck there maybe and whiping choping units galey i think is totaly worth.Lets not be over cautios with this kind of stuff becasue other to harm us in this neead alot to invest and we can paek 2 archers and with stone maybe walls and he need 5 galey worth of units to boat that. and we are creativ so borders will pop so weill see this coming and more than that that city is i our natural land if we consider that donovan land is ours and we should consider that, becasue i advocate get prepared as fast as posible for atack so serdoa dont be prepared , and he is behind now so will take a while for them to catch up.

[reddog]

I forgot to say i moved chariot on grass hill and there is just an worker and an archer so serdoa cant get to the hill this turn.All my panick was in vane but expevt to see alot of this from me....

[taotao]

As i seen from power serdoa has mostly archers if not only archers so getting a spear there is not necesary righ now on rem border will have a spear and enough warning to whip another one , and i am prety sure he wil l not atack us for a while.

How closely are you studying the power graph? I for one, am definitely not confident enough in separating the 2000p increases (archers) from 3000p (chariots). I haven't really tried either to be fair though. Currently even only two chariots could raze our city if we're unlucky.

I was thinking why not get that market and after Iron working and get some archers which are cheaper and beter to defend city and move up a unit towards rem borders to gave us warning we have a prety good road system so we can retaliate.

Revolahti doesn't need proper defenders (for a while at least), that warrior currently in Pulkkila will do just fine, but first I want two proper defenders in both border cities (archers would do, but one spear each do not come to waste). Actually I think our road system near REM is almost terrible. We can connect city 4 with 1 new road, but we need 2 new roads to not waste a turn with the settler in transit. I also would've preferred to be able to have 2-movers in one city being able to attack out from the other if we ever get under siege and for that we still need to road oasis.

About cities we can get one were our scout is or ch scout is aloads of forest realy fast to set up, and more than that plantin C3 were the sign is i think we can work the pig from Alvaro from the first turn, until something get improved.

Which is basically the same as the alternative when it comes to setup time, but it has worse tiles to work past size 3.

Well if you afarid about boating we can go 1 inland but that will be a waste .I am all for minimun infra but with all that forest there we can get alot from that city and to be a pain in serdoa back.Getting a granary and a barck there maybe and whiping choping units galey i think is totaly worth.Lets not be over cautios with this kind of stuff becasue other to harm us in this neead alot to invest and we can paek 2 archers and with stone maybe walls and he need 5 galey worth of units to boat that. and we are creativ so borders will pop so weill see this coming and more than that that city is i our natural land if we consider that donovan land is ours and we should consider that, becasue i advocate get prepared as fast as posible for atack so serdoa dont be prepared , and he is behind now so will take a while for them to catch up.

- Well I do agree that we'll get a city by the coast near the scouts. I just don't think that it needs to be super-filled with great tiles (and thus don't mind sharing them with city 3) as the city will be expendable in the medium term. (small caveat that if our only iron is in that clearing in the forest, then we do need to try and keep this city properly).
- It might be DZs land, and we might eat DZ, but it's still a lot closer to and on the same coast as Serdoas Cap... We will still take the land, but it's a thing to be aware of and plan accordingly.

Alvaro can work the cows and will chop the forest so when will be size 2 will have the granary builded without need for whip and from there will grow very fast.

Whip means more hammers, chop/early hammers means more food, I'm not sure if our workers will keep up to make us use the (albeit small difference in) food?

What we plan to build in the city which just whiped a library? put some hamers into a chariot let it grow 2 sizes and start a setler and whiped 10 turns after? build a worker? We have room for 5 cities more so we need to plan next setlers.

I don't care that much. Plan was something like unit to grow couple sizes and switch to scientists when/if we don't keep up with improvements. Some hammers into a market wouldn't be terrible though and really it might be best to have this city build the settler for the Moai candidate. Scientists can wait until we're closer to being GA-ready. (And having Oravainen only slow down its growth and market building with a worker instead of a settler probably is for the better).

I forgot to say i moved chariot on grass hill and there is just an worker and an archer so serdoa cant get to the hill this turn.All my panick was in vane but expevt to see alot of this from me...

Yeah I knew this. That's why I said I moved the scout 2W instead of W-SW.
I had kind of wanted to wait with showing our military units until we had settled the city (and then move up both units to send the message "we know what you're doing - back off" ), but I don't think I really communicated this.

[taotao]

Well done to grab the turn this early
Was going to log in just to settle the city, but I see that you already got it covered.

[reddog]

Well done to grab the turn this early
Was going to log in just to settle the city, but I see that you already got it covered.

yeah, i planted and done some obvious things the rest is good to discuss about it.Hit me on chat.

[reddog]

we need to do a plan to see if we use 1,2 or 3 workers to mine the gems.I will not end turn if you want to change something.I put pihajoky on worker taking 4 turns and capitol on a market but you can chage if you want.

[taotao]

we need to do a plan to see if we use 1,2 or 3 workers to mine the gems.I will not end turn if you want to change something.I put pihajoky on worker taking 4 turns and capitol on a market but you can chage if you want.

Ok, I've been logged in for a while, but seem to be a tad too tired to do proper constructive thinking. I'll post thoughts here in random order though so I don't forget everything.

- We seem really short on workers, at least to our north. I therefore approve of the worker in Pyhäjoki (fourth city with clams).
- Capital can build market this turn (picking up 13h overflow). I then propose worker for 1t, and then market once more for 1t when we have the new cottage coming in. A worker costs 60 food-hammers. We have 15 food hammer base. I propose we work 1 coast tile instead of cottage for 1t while building the worker. That way we get to 59/60h in worker in 4t (6t in total). We then 1-pop whip the worker for total overflow of 44h that will go into market (at 73/120h after this). Consider if we want to 2-pop-whip, 1-pop-whip or just chop and/or slow build those last hammers for our new happy cap.
- I considered 2-pop whipping Jutas for the settler. Considering Andrea and Georgie aren't quite ready with their actions and hammers from Georgies chop will arrive in 2t I think it might be better to save the whip for the next settler though. (Your proposed city5 seems fine to me (unless Serdoa does something odd with his settler)).
- It might be that we need to send the workers by our new city Svartholm towards the shared floodplain for city 4 after they've improved pigs and copper and possibly chopped a forest or improved wheat (haven't worked out micro wholly)
- It might be that we need a worker from Revolahti as well, but I think we should grow it to size 5 now anyway while the city has stolen wheat (can't grow it to size 6 without mp).
- With all the other workers occupied elsewhere I believe we will only have 2 workers for Pulkkila/city 4 (Eddy and Fran). I think those should build the two roads necessary to found "city 4 on t79. Afterwards they should probably mine Pulkkilas jungled gems before going back up to improve the gold.

- Serdoa has IW (dont know for how long, but it's evident by the jungle disappearing from gold at Nat Pagle).
- Is it possible that REM is on a crazy beeline to guilds? He has located iron and horses, but has omitted even teching mysticism for a long time even if he has cities that would sorely need a monument. Some bulb path that make sacrifices necessary?
- DZs city is empty! He has military, but where is it if not in his border city? We have a chariot nearby, but I'm thinking that it might be better to play nice now and come back when where ready to finish him off in one go or at least really cripple him (it's not like he's running away with the game even if he founded a new city last turn).
- Both REM and DZ are putting 1EP/t into us. Kind of annoying when we don't have graphs on CH and Borsche yet.