(November 6th, 2015, 02:06)taotao Wrote:We can delay setling that city so we dont need to defend that one as well.Sometimes i feel we should invested that forest in units...., is still not late as we can chopa granary barck and get units online, but MoM is so precious.(November 6th, 2015, 01:38)reddog Wrote: we depend on the last whip i supose not on forest chop?Becasue otherwise i am dispose to send some more worker even for 1 turn faster.Lets hope DZ will not interfer, if he interfer we will drop the plan as dont wanna invest and lose it.
Yeah, it's the whip that is crucial.
Really it's getting enough hammers into the units to make the whip useful and growing to size 3. Chops also need to be timed to come in on t88 and t90. T89 they would just get eaten in overflow.
I don't think Donovan will send an attack force at us, but the risk is he might send an impi scouting for a place to settle near "city5", come in at our diagonal and we're left with one axe and one chariot trying to defend our city and a worker that's chopping away...
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This is gonna be good: von Adlercreutz and Taotao
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 (November 6th, 2015, 03:49)reddog Wrote: We can delay setling that city so we dont need to defend that one as well. I've had a long think about this and come to the conclusion that I believe it's worth settling city 5 now. Main reason being to stop Serdoa from doing something he'll regret. The thing is, Serdoa doesn't know where Nummijärvi is. If he knew I'm pretty sure he wouldn't settle any more cities in this direction, but now he probably has seen the same vast amounts of forest that we found so intriguing. He probably also knows about the wet wheat and horses and would love a city in this region or somewhat northwest from here. Thing is though, he knows that we have visibility into the Ogre city, so it's probably not a good idea to advertise that he's got a settler party coming. Instead he'll send out the settler with the spear and axe pair and follow up with workers etc. later. This is quite an investment and he'll hold a grudge if he has to turn back without a proper city to show for it. What we therefore need to do is to settle our city before it starts to cost him too much to reroute his settler. Also factoring into the decision to settle now, is that Serdoa chopped a monument in his border city. I'd feel much safer settling such that his culture never owns the tile right next to our own city (and it's also a matter of who will get the hammers from one forest). Donovan on the other hand, knows precisely where Nummijärvi is and will know that we've claimed the wet wheat in our fat cross. As such, he will see very little value in trying to plant a city of his own in the region. If he wants to plant a risky city towards us he's much better off planting by the coast for clams and shared sugar. As long as we're above him in power and not engaged in a war on the other side I don't think either that he'll mount a full assault. As for units defending, we could send the chariot from Svartholm next turn such that we'll at least have a unit in the city when it is founded. The sword from Lapua will also go to Nummijärvi and we can probably free up a unit from there. If worst comes to worst we could lose the city, but first, I don't think we will, and secondly then so be it. It's a slightly risky play to get more land (and production through chops) in a contested area, but I think it's worth it to try it now. The main alternative I'd say would be to send the settler to the Moai site instead. It's three turns in transit, which is one turn longer than from the best cities, but still ok. I do want to settle this city soon, but settling as city 12 vs city 11 doesn't make a huge kind of difference. Quote:Sometimes i feel we should invested that forest in units...., is still not late as we can chopa granary barck and get units online, but MoM is so precious. Investing in a granary, barracks and about four units is a decent back up plan, but it's nowhere near as good as MoM. Grabbing Donovans land early might make us a local power, but getting MoM and using it well is the kind of move that can help us step up from local to world power in my opinion.
Played in PB27
All very good points, because of that a changed sword to an axe which will finish in 2 turns so can start going towards that area as well we can move the chariot.Setling the Moai city has a very big merit as already has an improved tile(horses) and will not need worker atention for a long time so I realy prefer that one.Revolati is better working cottages so can grow more as in 5 turns we will get 2 more happines.So i vote for moai and we can setle the othe one later.
I whiped the city as setling moi faster is realy beter.I will send one of the workers to chop the city site of moai will gave us 16 production in pukila.I think with the axe and chariot our plan for mai will not be perturbated.I hope so. I made some math and i think Org is saving us like 10 gold turn, AGG would had saved for example right now near 8-9 gold and would had build a cheap barack so i think until this stage of game Agg is more stronger,pro would had saved loads into granaries as we have granaries in near all cities, fin would had gave us like 7-8 gold.So i can say org is very weak for starting games maybe just philo is weaker than it, even cha would had alowed us to perform more whips would have been beter and some cities beeing larger. So actualy Cre was way more important with free culture and libraries, but still imp would had beat Cre ubtil now hands down, as well i think expansives with his cheap workers .I realy think in this large games ORG is not anymore top trait, and other traits got loads of bufs, maybe starts to shine to late and realy need large empire to be actualy good. (November 6th, 2015, 12:32)reddog Wrote: ...So i vote for moai and we can setle the othe one later. So, I saw this and even though I'm not sure it's worth giving Serdoa borders right up to city 5 I sent the settler up towards Moai. Sadly I then messed up and moved the workers to other tasks, forgetting about chopping the city tile. I don't think it's worth delaying settling just for the 16h or whatever it is, so I'm afraid I lost us those hammers.
Played in PB27
All right, nothing particularly interesting happened this turn. Notably nobody has yet built the Great Lighthouse. Seems like it’s falling very late in this game. Sure, no islands make it much less valuable, but still, I’m almost tempted to start it in Pulkkila after the lighthouse build
 Perhaps Serdoa will build it though? At least they are trading resources in a way that indicates that they’ve gotten sailing. Btw Mack, was it you or DZ that initiated the gems for silver trade? While we’re plodding along on our current tech goals we soon have a new major decision to make; namely what to research after Masonry? While for instance alphabet would be good for the economy I think we both agree that we need to start gearing up for war. Generally at this point in time I guess most people would go for horse archers as their main unit of choice. However, we’ll be facing aggressive impis, so away goes the horses and in comes the siege. The question then is whether to go for catapults or trebs? Catapults are sort of the ”normal” route. An attack force of swords and cats would have a hard time though if being attacked with shock axes (which DZ will have). For that reason, if we go construction we probably need to research Horseback riding as well for some war elephant stack protection. The other alternative would be to go Metal Casting -> Machinery. Trebs are more expensive than cats (80h vs 50h), but on the other hand is their survival rate better when attacking cities. Trebs are vulnerable in the field, but luckily Machinery gives a decent stack protector in the form of crossbows (60h just as WE) Looking at the techs Construction route is much cheaper (614+415=1029b) while MC->Machinery costs 514+1145=1659b. One thing that slightly offsets the difference though is that Metal Casting doubles as an economic tech as it gives access to 2-3 happy forges (if only we find the hammers to build them). Machinery is also on a straight route to Guilds (knights) and Banking (emancipation). For that reason it might be the better route (providing we manage the conquering). If this was SP I’d choose Machinery without a moment of doubt. However, what happens if DZ tech construction and hbr while we prepare to attack with trebs and crossbows? Sure, even hill cities like Mondatta should fall fairly easily if we are the ones attacking, but what if he attacks out? Then again, he only has 5 cities at the moment and CH who I believe is on the other side of DZ has a silver (suggesting he’s settled towards Donovan) so it might be that he won’t grow much larger. With 5 building queues he’ll have a hard time scraping together enough cats to be really scary... I’m really not sure what I’d prefer here. Part of me wants to go -> Machinery as it’s more efficient, but then the other part is really scared of this being my SP experience and mentality that gets too much room and gets me killed...
Played in PB27
DZ proposed the trade and i accepted, no point to not take it.
About war I was considering myself going metal casting Machinery but there we have 3 problems with that: -more expensive, trebuchet realy expensive and realy weak if we end up fighting in open , and no bridges for moving units. And ther is even more HA are beter long term , and even he has impis Ha can do some clean up job and moving faster so can get to front faster. I was considering a big stack formed from 8 swords, 10 cats, 2-3 war elies, 3- axes, 1 spear with Ha coming from back .WE e will not count on this campaign on units superiority , but in numbers so i think we will have to whip very city 1-2 times , chop to get the units in position fast.
DZ proposed the trade and i accepted, no point to not take it.
About war I was considering myself going metal casting Machinery but there we have 3 problems with that: -more expensive, trebuchet realy expensive and realy weak if we end up fighting in open , and no bridges for moving units. And ther is even more HA are beter long term , and even he has impis Ha can do some clean up job and moving faster so can get to front faster. I was considering a big stack formed from 8 swords, 10 cats, 2-3 war elies, 3- axes, 1 spear with Ha coming from back .WE e will not count on this campaign on units superiority , but in numbers so i think we will have to whip very city 1-2 times , chop to get the units in position fast.
Ok, a short rundown for lurkers on civ developments:
- Long time ago a Finn decided to join a new big pb. - Another Finn asked if he pretty please could play with the big boys too. - First Finn finds it hard to get any playtime. Little bugger always plays first and make plans that he can't bother to prove wrong. - First Finn quits. - New(bie) Finn cries. Please come back I don't want to play alone! - First Finn is silent. - New Finn cries on forum. Please someone come play with me! We can make a big sandcastle! The foundation is already done! - Mackoti joins and says "we should get MoM on our side" - New Finn says: We're better of getting currency, but I love Mommy so you can phone her. - Mackoti is silent (but learns how to deal with coins) (- The shields above the gate of the sandcastle is decorated with arrows and swords.) - Finn and Mackoti both start dreaming about Mommy the same night. - Finn thinks he'll learn to count the days until he gets to see mommy at a certain time and make plans to meet her. - Mackoti after a while says he's good at math and can start the count slightly earlier. - Finn makes new beautiful plan for Mommy - Mackoti says he can make a picture for the seasons much earlier. - Finn says it doesn't matter as both the naughty horses and arrowmen need to be spanked for mommy to come. - Mackoti says only one needs to be spanked if trees from all over the country are felled. - Finn is aghast with the horror of workers sightseeing instead of improving important land, but hands over the reigns temporarily to Mackoti...
Played in PB27
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