[Java MOO] Feedback on bugs, cheats & exploits

[Ray F]

Dropping population to avoid being nominated.

This feels like an exploit. I use it all the time and it allows me to be at war with everyone and not have the galaxy unite against me. Without it I'd be forced to play nice with at least some neighbors which will be a nice strategic addition.

The advantage of this tactic (I hesitate to call it an exploit) exists only because you are able to "be at war with everyone" and somehow not get exterminated. To me, that is the root problem. If everyone is at war with you, then why does the AI need the formation of the New Republic to unite temporarily and carve up your empire in the name of peace? They should be smart enough to do this without an election.

Factory construction
The OSG way is one way that resolves the problem. I think my perfect way would be to work with the estimated population and squeeze the maximum number of operable factories. Build new RC2 factories if there is free population, or upgrade existing ones if there isn't available population. It's more complicated to calculate and implement though so the OSG way may be the best way to do it.

I agree with the latter example. I will add to my To-Do list an item to Refit factories per the OSG, which is a better but more complicated algorithm than the current iteration. Attempts to build to the maximum operable factories should be done before refit.

[Ray F]

How is how the ColonyIndustry nextTurn logic now works. These steps occur each turn, in this order, as long as there is BC to spend. Also note that factory cost is based on the colony's current robotic controls level, but factory limits are based on RC level adjusted by race (i.e. Meklars +2).

Calculate BC to spend. Sum of:
-- slider% * colony income * planetAdj
-- slider% * reserve income
-- industry reserve BC (any carryover form previous turn)

If there are alien factories
-- Convert each alien factory at 2BC per factory
-- if cannot complete, remaining BC is carried over

If not at max useable factories (pop*RC)
-- Build add'l factories at colony's current RC level

If not at max robotic controls
-- iteratively upgrade all factories to next RC level, until at max
-- if cannot complete, remaining BC is carried over

If not at max possible factories (planet size * maxRC)
-- Build add'l factories at colony's current RC level (max now)

If any BC left over
-- send it all to empire reserve

[RefSteel]

How is how the ColonyIndustry nextTurn logic now works. These steps occur each turn, in this order, as long as there is BC to spend. Also note that factory cost is based on the colony's current robotic controls level, but factory limits are based on RC level adjusted by race (i.e. Meklars +2).

Note that in the original game, one of the Meklar racial advantages was that they never had to pay refit costs for factories, and that all their new factories were always purchased as though the currenter RC level were the default RC2. (This was intended behavior, not just part of the RC bug.) Is this Meklar bonus preserved in Java MoO?

[Ray F]

Note that in the original game, one of the Meklar racial advantages was that they never had to pay refit costs for factories, and that all their new factories were always purchased as though the currenter RC level were the default RC2. (This was intended behavior, not just part of the RC bug.) Is this Meklar bonus preserved in Java MoO?

I was not aware of this additional racial feature. I'll add it in tonight.

[Ray F]

Looks very nice, one of the major bugs gone!

Will there be a way to tell what factories are at what level? For example, my homeworld is maxed at 100 pop / 200 factories when I discover RC3. I don't want to build more factories just yet, but want to upgrade 150 of them and send half the population to attack a nearby planet.

You can always see the max pop, factories, shields or missile bases for a colony from the colony information display. See below from a new Meklar game, the factories say "30/400". Of course, the max bases for a colony need to be configured by the player, so they start at "0/0".

However, there is no way to see that "half of my factories are refitted". All of the refactories are marked as refitted once you have paid the total price.

[Psillycyber]

Ooooh, a way to set a max number of bases for a planet to build! How nice! Those screenshots look fantastic! Dat interface tho

[Ray F]

Note that in the original game, one of the Meklar racial advantages was that they never had to pay refit costs for factories, and that all their new factories were always purchased as though the currenter RC level were the default RC2. (This was intended behavior, not just part of the RC bug.) Is this Meklar bonus preserved in Java MoO?

ok, I've added a true/false variable in the race definition file for "ignoresFactoryRefit?". If this is set, then that race pays no cost to upgrade factories and also uses the base RC2 value when determining the cost to build factories. Only the Meklars are defined with this attribute set to true.

Ooooh, a way to set a max number of bases for a planet to build! How nice! Those screenshots look fantastic! Dat interface tho

oh man, I now hate not having that ability in MOO1. Managing missile bases becomes another form of micro-management and the solution I created was designed to completely eliminate that problem while allowing different base limits per colony.

This root problem in MOO1 was triggered by colonies completing their planetary shields but not always notifying the player so he could reduce defense spending. As a result, too many bases would get built...

[Ray F]

In full agreement on the interface - it is amazing.

I love the base max too - it is a pain to micromanage them and this will be a great refreshment. Small touches like this make a huge difference in the enjoyment of the game.

What about doing something on the ECO projects as well - notifications when they are completed instead of continuing to grow population, and always resetting the ECO slider if the population is maxed but there is more allocated than what's required to cleanup? Also when discovering a new terraforming tech and asked how much to allocate on all planets, it would be nice to have a cap so never more is allocated than what's required required to complete the terraforming.

ok, let's talk about "Colony Orders" in Java MOO. These are created on colonies after you learn a technology that prompts you to re-adjust spending for all colonies (the old 25/50/75% option). There are six types of colony orders supported in Java MOO:

Shields - 25/50/75% for new Planetary Shield techs
Bases - 10/20/30% for new Missile Base techs (new in Java MOO)
Factories - 25/50/75% for Robotic Controls techs
Soil - 25/50/75% for Soil Enrichment techs
Atmosphere - 25/50/75% for Atmospheric Terraforming tech
Terraforming - 25/50/75% for Improved Terraforming techs

Please note that the option to reduce Eco spending when you learn a Waste Reduction tech has been removed. This is the default now. Also note that when any of the three ECO orders are completed, they are automatically replaced with an equivalent Factories order (this mimics MOO1 behavior).

If you have one order in progress, the behavior of colony spending should be the same as in MOO1. But if you learn multiple techs in succession that create orders and their combined spending exceeds 100%, the behavior changes from MOO1.

In MOO1, there is no memory of previous orders so the last order always takes precedence. This means that if your Ultra-Poor planet is still working on Shield spending when you assign 75% to your new Robotic Controls tech, it will switch to Industry spending and NEVER SWITCH BACK to building the shield when it is done. This means you have to micro-manage spending across colonies, which as we know never scales well.

What Java MOO does is treat these spending orders sort of like a build queue that, instead of building one thing at a time, builds multiple things at the weights you assign. If the weights exceed 100%, they are proportionally adjusted downward so they equal 100%.

So if you assign 50% to planetary shields, all colonies start spending that amount. If you steal Robotic Controls one turn later and assign 75% spending for it, then all colonies start spending 40/60 on those two categories (after ECO cleanup, always).

Then if you learn Atmospheric Terraforming and assign 25% to it, then Hostile planets start spending 33/50/17 on DEF/IND/ECO.

This system ensures that you do not have to go back and track, for example, that every colony actually built a shield just because they needed to be distracted with more urgent factory spending.

[Ray F]

All very good.

What happens on completion of one out of 3 projects - for example 33/50/17 and the planetary shield is done?

Also what happens if a new ECO project becomes available before a previous one has been completed - for example T40 + Atmospheric terraforming?

Anytime that an order is added to a colony or completed, the spending is recalibrated according to the current orders. So, if you had assigned:
Shield: 50%
Factories: 75%
Terraforming: 25%

Then the spending would be 33/50/17 for DEF/IND/ECO. If the shields finish first, the spending automatically shifts to 75/25 IND/ECO. If Terraforming finishes first, it shifts to 40/60 DEF/IND, as would be expected. If Factories finish first, it would be 50/25 IND/ECO with the remaining 25% defaulting to research.

If you have TWO orders in the same category, then the maximum allocation takes precedence. For example:
Atmospheric Terraforming: 75%
Terraforming +40: 50%

Would result in 75% spending for ECO. When the Atmospheric Terraforming completes, ECO spending would automatically reduce to 50%.

To me, that's very intuitive.

[RefSteel]

Sounds brilliant!

One question on Eco spending: In the original game, at max population with all eco projects completed, the game claimed that any extra spending was being placed in the reserve. In fact, extra eco spending was simply lost (as far as I can tell at least; it certainly wasn't added to the reserve.)

In theory, the design intent was to add to the planetary reserve, but I'm not sure this is quite true: When overspending on the ECO slider, it just shows "Clean" not "Reserve" (the way the IND slidfer does) - and it seems wrong that a max-pop Ultra-Poor can add to the reserves at the same rate as a max-facs "normal" world. Overspending on Eco could add to the reserve at a worse rate (say 4:1 instead of 2:1?) or just add to an eco-only same-planet reserve sort of like the shipbuilding one or something, but I don't know which approach is actually best.....