[Java MOO] Feedback on bugs, cheats & exploits

[Ray F]

Sounds brilliant!

One question on Eco spending: In the original game, at max population with all eco projects completed, the game claimed that any extra spending was being placed in the reserve. In fact, extra eco spending was simply lost (as far as I can tell at least; it certainly wasn't added to the reserve.)

In theory, the design intent was to add to the planetary reserve, but I'm not sure this is quite true: When overspending on the ECO slider, it just shows "Clean" not "Reserve" (the way the IND slidfer does) - and it seems wrong that a max-pop Ultra-Poor can add to the reserves at the same rate as a max-facs "normal" world. Overspending on Eco could add to the reserve at a worse rate (say 4:1 instead of 2:1?) or just add to an eco-only same-planet reserve sort of like the shipbuilding one or something, but I don't know which approach is actually best.....

Excess ECO spending most definitely goes to the Empire Reserve in Java MOO. As expected, planetary resource bonuses or penalties are applied when that occurs.

For poor planets, any reserve funneled into ECO spending is assumed to be unspent until after all of the planetary production funneled into ECO spending. This has the effect of minimizing the amount of ECO spending that gets the penalty before going to the reserve.

For rich planets, any reserve funneled into ECO spending is assumed to be spent first, maximizing the amount of ECO spending that gets the multiplier before going to the reserve.

This is actually true for all spending categories that can send to the reserve.

[Ray F]

The automatic resets are very intuitive yes, looking forward to them.

Can you give an example about "any reserve funneled into ECO spending" being spent first/last? I don't understand what you mean there.

It's a little esoteric, but it addresses RefSteel's concern that reserve from Poor planets may not get the penalty if it is in the ECO category. So, let's say you are funneling reserve into a poor colony, and 100BC goes into ECO spending: 50 from the reserve, and 50 from the colony production.

If the ECO spending completes, any excess goes to the Empire Reserve. Let's say that 40BC of the original 100BC is left over and will go to the reserve.

The 50 BC originally from the colony production will be hit with the "Poor planet" penalty or "Rich planet" bonus before going into the reserve, while the 50 BC that originally came from the Reserve will not.

For Poor planets you want the production BC spent first, since there is no planet penalty with ECO spending. In this case, all 40BC left over in ECO will have come from the original Reserve spending, which means it won't get the "Poor" planet penalty before going back to the reserve.

For Rich planets you want the reserve BC spent first, so you can benefit from the planet bonus before it goes to the Reserve. In this case, all 40BC left over in ECO will be increased before going into the reserve.

This really only matters for ECO, since both IND and DEF always apply the planet bonus/penalty for spending so there's no need to work about it before it goes to Reserve.

[Ray F]

Very nice! And it will reset itself with a notification like in the standard MOO after a project is completed right? Meaning the reserve contribution only happens on the turn a project is completed - unless of course the player manually increases the slider when there is no project to be worked on.

That is correct.

The notifications are managed a little differently so that they scale better. In MOO1, if you had 30 colonies all complete their ECO spending in the same turn, you'd have 30 screens pop-up (unavoidable) and you'd adjust the spending if you didn't like the default. And if you accidentally clicked before adjusting, it would go to the next colony and you'd have to try and figure out later which one you missed.

In Java MOO, there is a "Next" and "Prev" button for this so you can go back and forth. There's a "Finish" button for when you're done or if you just want to skip the whole process. Here's what that looks like:


In addition, you can adjust the sliders for colonies from the Colony listing display, which makes it a lot easier for people who really want to micro-manage every colony. Here's an example of that screen:

[RefSteel]

I've mentioned that your interface iprovements are amazing, right? Because they really, really are.

[Ray F]

I've mentioned that your interface iprovements are amazing, right? Because they really, really are.

I really like the interfaces of games made in the early 90s before Windows came along and started standardizing the look & feel of everything. Even now, so many space 4X games are just big black UIs with the map and pop-ups for everything on the map. Not that it's bad, but that everything starts looking the same now. For games that I am going to play for untold hours, I want a UI that is custom-designed for the game rather than shoe-horned into a look that is designed to be immediately accessible to as many as people as possible (which is a very important sales concern).

Since this is a MOO1 clone, I definitely want to maintain the MOO1 "look" but still find a way to improve the look and useability of the screens. That's been the design challenge for me, mostly.

In addition, the illustrator for the project does AMAZING work, so the original scope for new artwork has changed dramatically as I now feel the need to incorporate his artistic skills throughout as much of the game as possible. Once all of the "traditional" artwork is done (races, planets, ships, etc), I am going to have him start designing UI elements. The ultimate hope is that the UI not only invokes the original game but with enhancements, but is also artistically beautiful as well.

[Waterd]

I like all changes, Ship it!

I think the council vote is not interesting enough as it is though, i think having majority election, should net some benefit, so there is a point to choose a winner, even when you know no one will get 2/3

[Ray F]

I like all changes, Ship it!

haha, it's not ready yet! I'm finishing up the Galactic Council code this week, with placeholder graphics from MOO1 in the UI until the new artwork is done.

After that, I have to add all of the diplomacy options: trade, war, peace, pacts, alliances, threats, gifts, etc. That should probably take another month.

The alpha should be around Feb/March, I think.

I think the council vote is not interesting enough as it is though, i think having majority election, should net some benefit, so there is a point to choose a winner, even when you know no one will get 2/3

The first release is strictly MOO1 with exploits and cheats removed as much as possible. No new features.

[Zieman]

I think the council vote is not interesting enough as it is though, i think having majority election, should net some benefit, so there is a point to choose a winner, even when you know no one will get 2/3

Simple majority winning should become with a caveat: (semi)final war with the opposing factions (not just everyone vs. player).
Could lead to interesting clashes of might, like runaway AI & its 2 PE lackeys vs. a couple of strong AIs & player.
The war would last until the other side is decimated, or until one of the original nominees is eliminated - resulting in a cool-off period and new vote.

Defying the > 2/3 vote would trigger the regular final war, with no other way out than eliminating everyone.

[Ray F]

I dunno. The purpose of the Galactic Council is to eliminate the mop-up phase in the game, which can be a pain on large maps. It works really well in that regard. If you are getting >50% of the vote but not 2/3rds, then you are already in a very good spot and on your way to a likely win. I'm not sure the game needs to give that player additional advantages.

[Zeraan]

I noticed that there's three circles around each colony. I'm assuming that the largest two are the regular fuel range and extended fuel range, but what about the small circles? I see that when they overlap, the area is more brightly colored, unlike the larger two circles. So what are they?

I like where your version is going with the interface. It's a big improvement over MoO 1's already good interface.