November 25th, 2015, 15:32
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t100 cont.
Ok, if anyone's interested I'll put up some more screens from the turn.
Cities:
Oravainen
Lapua
Revolahti
Pyhäjoki
Jutas
Pulkkila
Alavo
Svartholm
Nummijärvi
Virta
Sveaborg
Toivala
Military
I already showed you the graph of our military earlier, but I guess you might also want to see a breakdown of current units:
November 26th, 2015, 03:44
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krill already has 17 -18 cities and the wanable not finished, gettin all dz will hardly put on par with him.So we must think harder.
November 26th, 2015, 07:44
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Looks like till now no one payed for open borders,well lets wait for more people to check the offers and otherwise offer them for free.
Our preparation for the big turn are near over.Lets have fun.
November 26th, 2015, 10:52
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(November 26th, 2015, 07:44)mackoti Wrote: Looks like till now no one payed for open borders,well lets wait for more people to check the offers and otherwise offer them for free.
A shame about the Serdoa not biting on the open borders. Not sure if I thought they would accept straight up, but had kind of expected counter offers at least.
I’ll let lurkers know that Elkad did make a counter offer. OB for OB and 5gpt from us. I wonder if he doesn’t see that our original offer actually will benefit him as well? Sure there are other possibilities: He could e.g. be researching alpha himself or he could already be trading with plako? But could it simply be that he doesn’t want to help the score leader? This is actually the second time he’s turned down a good trade offer from us and tried for a better deal for himself (the first time he didn’t want to trade silver for our gems, but agreed if we offered silks instead).
One reason why I didn’t properly consider alpha earlier was that I didn’t want this haggling over pennies but I really don’t see us giving anything away if we’ve done the necessary research (and straight up ob with elkad only can become an issue if we don’t fill our routes with the ones we ”have to” open borders with for scouting).
Any better news from Borsche or Commodore?
btw. Commodore whipped 5 times this turn (in a GA). I really hope it’s because he has spotted REM troops by his border (we also just accepted a fish-fish deal from REM that could’ve had a small impact on his decision).
November 26th, 2015, 11:06
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I offered straight back to comodore.I see serdoa see's us the great enemies so beer no scountin for now.
November 26th, 2015, 13:19
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CH took open borders so we have now +9 comerce turn wich is nice.
November 26th, 2015, 15:50
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(November 26th, 2015, 13:19)mackoti Wrote: CH took open borders so we have now +9 comerce turn wich is nice. 2 pieces of big news.
REM took open borders. That means we're getting 20 extra commerce / turn compared to our previous turn (5 routes left to fill).
and...
REM has declared war on Commodore!  
Unless this is all an elaborate plot to get us to declare on someone else and then stab us in the back this is amazing news.
Before the war declaration I'd say that Commodore was the one of our neighbours that was doing the best by far. More cities than the others, Pyramids, his own religion and a healthy economy all have put him in a good position. He hasn't prioritized his military though and that can really bite him now. REM on the other hand has a huge army for this era and an economy somewhat down the drain. He needs to make profitable conquest and he needs to do it fast. I don't really think there's any way that Commodore won't lose a couple of cities in this war, but early war is something of his speciality so gains shouldn't still come too easy for REM. Even if REM would completely mess this up, at least it will achieve Commodore using his early GA (was his GP meant for a wonder/academy originally?) whipping troops instead of getting infra in place and GPs lined up. Really, the only way I see this not being a total win-win situation for us is if Commodore for unknown reasons just mails it in and REM doubles his size for nothing, but even that doesn't sound absolutely terrible. 
November 27th, 2015, 02:38
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Good good, I was 90% sure he will declare on comodore, becasue i bet commodore setled upon him(very comodore style) and he consider Rem weak so he will see how weak he is.
November 27th, 2015, 03:21
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Folks, it’s turn 102 and the Finno-Dutch are marching to WAR!
Before going into the nitty gritty of actually slaughtering good Zulu people I thought I’d try to explain once more the reasoning for this action. I’m probably influenced in my opinions by mackoti, but by and large these will be my own thoughts.
Why war at this point?
This has a lot to do with what is needed to have a shot at winning this game.
12 cities are nice and all, but as the game progress it’ll become more and more apparent that more cities equals more research. There’s three ways to win a civ IV MP game. Domination; which would be hard on such a large map as this, Culture; that we’re already behind on with the 3 first religions going on the other continent and not being Spi or Phi and finally Space victory; the most common victory condition in large pb’s.
Now, do we need to expand our number of cities now?
In my opinion; no.
We would have other alternatives in building up infra in our cities, outgrow our neighbouring civs a bit more in tech and strike at a slightly later time, perhaps at knights, at drafted muskets or possibly cuirassiers? Many good players at this site seem to panic when they see other players making gains (such as Gav killing Grimace or Krill eating the Wannabe) and sometimes make even ill-advised attacks in order to “keep up”. Sure, eventually we do need to gain land to remain competitive, but if we have a choice between exhausting our whole empire to do it now or hardly breaking a sweat in 20t, then the latter alternative might be preferable.
So why now?
Well, for one thing it’s a matter of collateral and mobility. The defender always (well, almost) has a mobility advantage, but if we strike before the opponent has managed to gather the cats that lets him get those green combat logs, we’re at a comparative advantage when it comes to risk aversion.
Then there’s also the matter of the islands. What islands? Well, we’re fairly sure that there’s a decent amount of land locked up in islands between the continents that would be good to get from both research and strategical perspectives. Generally speaking, island holdings are much more vulnerable than land on your own continent and perhaps not something to base your strategy on, but this time we’re Dutch and have East Indiamen which gives us a psychological as well as real advantage for some time to come. If possible, I also want to focus on one thing at a time. That is, if we’re rushing someone with knights, I’m not quite sure that we’ll be set to build settlers, EIs, mp’s etc at the same time. Thus, getting conquest on the mainland “out of the way” at an earlier time scale seems more preferable than otherwise.
Why Donovan?
Mainly this is just a matter of geography and Donovan being unlucky. Well, to some extent it’s also a matter of him being very slow with initial expansion. He’s currently sitting at 7 cities, soon to be 6 which also means 7 (6) building queues. That is, from the moment we attack he won’t be able to produce that many units even if he was to whip every turn. We can also reach his capital much quicker than any other players. So, while we probably could take Serdoas two first cities with our current army if we wanted, by the time we’re at the gates of his third he could whip up protective archers in such a force that we’d come up short on units ourselves for taking the city. Give him a few more turns after that and he could have enough cats to even attack out.
I really have nothing against DZ in this game or otherwise, he’s acted as a good neighbour, trading us silver and keeping impis in non-threatening positions. He’s also kept a decent power rating throughout and has researched the techs to be able to build quality troops. Still, he’s the one of our three neighbours that seems to offer the cheapest route to an extended territory.
November 27th, 2015, 04:50
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Declared war on Donovan and moved a couple of units to have a peek at his defenses.
Pics to follow shortly.
Most of the turn is still untouched, but I have sent this PM to DZ:
Comrade Stalin,
I regret to inform you that as of now our nations exist in a state of war.
The dual rulers of the Finno-Dutch civilization have given in to popular demand and as a first act threatened to liberate the city of Grozny from your hands.
We have taken the first part of the turn split and generally act in a manner where one person plays most of the turn and the other logs in to check moves and finish the turn. We hope that this procedure will be acceptable to you in the future too and you will take the action of our “Finished turn” as a sign that we won’t move any more units relevant to the war and you’re likewise free to do any war actions that you may wish. Personally I don’t mind at all if you log in outside of your side of the turn split to check things (or even move units outside the reach of the other party) and I hope you will be ok with us doing the same in order to make the turns run more smoothly.
Regards,
taotao and mackoti
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