This is gonna be good: von Adlercreutz and Taotao

[mackoti]

Ouch, Tao just told me that our 'levees' dont get any bonuses on rivers so here we have a Jaguar situation here, instead to get a buff we realy got the midle finger.Take back the freaking 1 hammer in water tiles and gave back the river bonus.

For example our capitol gains 4 hammers and loose 8 and not counting Ga for cotage tiles when instead to have 2 hammers there will be none.lapua loose 10 hammers becasue why not and same some cities which will be big cities when we can build dikes and can get fast, but no to benefit them we need to build in smaler cities, which will be very easy to do.

[taotao]

What about 10 experience rifles? we can have 2 cities to get those ...Amphiour rifles owns.And spreding religion will not be that hard, we will have many hammers.

10xp rifles are of course great. Relies on us getting another GG before that though...
Spreading religion depends somewhat on where we get the spread. As you seemed to realize yourself we can't build monasteries until after astronomy. If it lands in a production poor city there's also the matter of just producing the monastery and the first missionary to get anywhere at all.
But...
let's just hope we get that spread soon and in a decent hammer city shall we?

[taotao]

Ok, so we will have a Golden Age in 3 turns time.
Plan is to generate 2 GSci for astro bulbs during the GA.
Previously I've said that we should consider serfdom as civic until we reach emancipation (banking).
Mack has said that we need caste and I've accepted that for the time being.
However, during chat today I further asked him about it a bit and got some clarifications (quoted below) which got me thinking...

i think we can get optics 3-4 turns before second scientist

Now, previously you said something about reaching banking on 8th turn of GA. Add 2-3t for compass+optics, add 3-4t until GSci and you're counting on the 2nd scientist around t130, give or take a turn?

I also asked about order in which we produce the Great Scientists:

first ural gets 200
then alovo 300
oravaiinen does do nothing
we build national epic
in alavo
and he will take of GP
we are not in hurry with next ga*

So do we need caste to get 1GSci from Ural and 1GSci from Alavo?
I say no, we don't.


Example:
3t to GA: work 3 scientists any way you like in Ural -> t116 we have 9gpp in Ural (0 in Alavo)
t116: Start GA and adopt serfdom

Serfdom: +1 hammer from mines, +75% worker speed, +2 artist, scientist, merchant specialist slots. Medium cost, requires Feudalism

hire 4 scientists in both Ural and Alavo (possible since they've got libraries).

gpp-production in cities = 4 Scientists * 3gpp/t * 2 (GA) = 24gpp/t

t124:
Ural = 9gpp + 8t * 24gpp/t = 201gpp -> Our second GP is born
Alavo = 8t * 24gpp/t = 192gpp -> We need 108gpp more. That's all right, we have 4t of GA left (we'll probably switch to emancipation in this period, but that civic also has +2 sci-spots)

->t128: GA ends, and in Alavo we're at 192 + 4*24gppt/t = 288gpp
->t129: keeping 4 scientists still we reach 288gpp+12gpp= 300gpp and our 3rd GP is born.


So why have I bothered with this calculation?
Well, I simply believe that serfdom is a stronger civic than caste for us at the moment.
- We currently don't have a single workshop (about to change, but still) while we have, I don't know, 25-30 mines?
- Caste gives access to unlimited specialists, but we're really not using that function are we? (4 scientists or 2 artists + creative should cover most situations where it'd be useful).
- Serfdom gives 75% quicker workers. Not super-necessary with current workforce, but still a bonus.
- Caste is high maintenance while Serfdom only medium. Again, not super-important, but still helpful.

*the reason why I asked about order we generate in, is that caste could come in handy if we try to use the GA to get partway through to the next two GPs (probably starving Alavo a bit in the end), but if you're ok with waiting 30ish turns after the NE for our 2-man GA, then all is fine.

[mackoti]

First , nice analizes Tao, but i return on my math and there i done so mistake so the thing will be like this;
G1,2-machinery
g 3,4, 5- guilds
g 6,7- banking
g 8 compas
g9 -optics

so g10 we can have astro, so we need to go with caste sistem

[mackoti]

few things of this turn:

Krill whiped last turn but not enough to loose his food lead to us so him beeing spiritual went in caste and hired some specealist too??

maximum production had a huge grow, someoene with big emire going Ga and adopting serdform? Krill working that many workshops? dont know.

Comm still alive, rem cities must be suffering from WW.We are still first in power but someone is 465k as well, lets see when turn ends if goes down becasue i am very sure REm is not number 2 in power.

[mackoti]

You know what i was thinking, perhpas get comaps optics before guilds so we can start exploring with caravels 4-5 turns earlier.will cost us between 300-450 comerce but i think this might be acceptable.

[taotao]

Remember mack how you were angry that CH razed one of "our" cities?
Well, seems like he wants to remedy that transgression now as he's sending a settler up to our border:




As can be seen Serdoa isn't too trusting with regards to us at the moment. At first I was worried that he might actually try an attack on Mondatta, but surely he'd want at least a couple of cats if that was the case, so I guess this is just defensive insurance.

Considering CH is now bordering the military number 1 power and has another neighbour that just lifted a city of him (now in peace treaty) he's not really building many units. Instead he choose to resettle a disputed area and build a couple of quays in his port cities. For his sake I hope that tensions between us and Serdoa continues to run fairly high.

And talking about somewhat foolhardy settlements. Have you seen the city Elkad planted the other turn? Flatland and 4 tiles away from Moscow. I have to give it to him, he's got some guts...



Since we're back as top nation in food I thought I'd also show off the demos for the first time in a while:



Those include 62h going into wealth builds and as ever we have quite a high culture output, but we are going in a decent direction anyway.


World news: AT lifted a city off Molach last turn. Did he make peace with Adrien after taking two cities and then turned his army around perhaps?

[taotao]

You know what i was thinking, perhpas get comaps optics before guilds so we can start exploring with caravels 4-5 turns earlier.will cost us between 300-450 comerce but i think this might be acceptable.

I think I want to have a little look at how quickly we can pop the scientists with caste before getting an opinion on this. Also, I definitely don't want to risk not making it to banking in the GA and nor do I want to "be stuck" having to build wealth in lots of cities instead of the units that we want for actual colonization...

[mackoti]

Well we get in first 6 turns from ural,and after will take 3 more turns in Lapua.About getting the comerce necesary is no problem to get banking in Ga.Did i dispointed you till now?

[mackoti]

I put the scientist back on lake on ural as i want city to be size 9 so i can work 6 scientists and 3 food resource and not to starve that bad.