[spoilers] - Pindicator makes America great again!

[scooter]

Huh, I'm crashing to desktop when I try to open it. Scooter, can you try to open it? Considering I'm running Civ on a new system now I don't want to assume the issue is with the file.

I won't be able to until much later tonight, and then I need to install the mod. Do you have the right mod installed?

And/or any lurkers around to verify?

[Dreylin]

There's something in one of the other threads that the file version is BTS rather than RtR; not sure if that will cause the problems you describe.

[pindicator]

Oh yeah, that is definitely it. I loaded it up in regular BtS fine, but I crash when I try to load it in RtR 2.0.7.4

Edit: Well, I have enough information to start microing on spreadsheets at least. From the sandbox file I can see that the map is standard size, which was the last detail I needed to calculate tech costs.

[scooter]

Pulling a joey here, so you dont have a 2h plant and you want one?

Ahhhh. It's like I was never gone. I'm sure Joey will respond to this in a completely level-headed way.


Also, I accidentally posted this in the tech thread where it sat for about 4 seconds, so uh... hopefully neither of these guys have email notifications for that thread up and running currently, otherwise you may be forced to disavow knowledge of me to save getting grudge-rushed.

[pindicator]

1. SIP. Go wb > worker > warrior > settler. Tech hunting first and then probably mining > bw.

Build Order: wb (8), worker (20), grow to 2 (24), warrior (27), settler (33), aided by chop on 30.
Worker has time to pasture the cows (24), putz about for 2 turns, move to forested hill (27), chop said hill (30), and then either putz around some more so it can move with the settler or build a mine on the hill it just chopped (32).
Tech: hunting (8), mining (15), bw (27), wheel (35)

Not a huge fan, there's a lot of wasted worker turns, the first settler feels slow, and I'm not even certain how useful the work boat is over getting the worker out sooner and just farming one of those sugar tiles.

Edit: fixing errors

[pindicator]

Also, I accidentally posted this in the tech thread where it sat for about 4 seconds, so uh... hopefully neither of these guys have email notifications for that thread up and running currently, otherwise you may be forced to disavow knowledge of me to save getting grudge-rushed.

Considering how my last game on this site ended with me vowing never to play with Joey again, I'm not sure I can get much farther down that grudge hole than I already am.

On the other hand, half the site is probably on that grudge rush list...

[pindicator]

1. SIP. Go wb > worker > warrior > settler. Tech hunting first and then probably mining > bw.

2nd attempt at this:

Build Order: wb (8), worker (20), grow to 2 while building warrior (24), worker (30) aided by chop from first worker, finish warrior (31), settler (34).
1st worker pastures the cows (24), putzes about for 2 turns, moves to forest NW of capital (27), chops that tree (30), moves to forested hill SW of capital, chops that tree (34).
2nd worker chops a tree W of the capital (34) to get the settler out.
Tech: hunting (8), mining (15), bw (27), wheel (35)

Settler comes a turn later, but with 2 workers out I consider this an improvement.

[scooter]

V2 does look better.

Build Order: wb (8), worker (20), grow to 2 while building warrior (24), worker (30) aided by chop from first worker, finish warrior (31), settler (34).
1st worker pastures the cows (24), putzes about for 2 turns, moves to forest NW of capital (27), chops that tree (30), moves to forested hill SW of capital, chops that tree (34).
2nd worker chops a tree W of the capital (34) to get the settler out.
Tech: hunting (8), mining (15), bw (27), wheel (35)

Settler comes a turn later, but with 2 workers out I consider this an improvement.

Stray questions/thoughts.

1) Any chance we can screw with tiles enough to bring BW in a turn earlier without sacrificing other stuff too much? That's our bottleneck right now it seems as settler is waiting on the chop essentially. BW 1T earlier means settler 1T earlier.
2) Is there chop overflow coming from worker? Guessing not, but if so, worth dumping that into settler for a turn given IMP?
3) Definitely interested in a version of this that ignores the cow and goes straight mining-bw while farming the sugars. Wouldn't be shocked if earlier chop access out-performs the pasture hammers. This may even lead to waiting on the WB.

[scooter]

Not a huge fan, there's a lot of wasted worker turns, the first settler feels slow, and I'm not even certain how useful the work boat is over getting the worker out sooner and just farming one of those sugar tiles.

Oh, I see you addressed the sugar thing already. Yeah, the farmed sugar is 4/0/1 and the clam is 4/0/2. Basically the same, and you get to use the worker for more than one improvement. Worker-first combined with mining-bw-hunting path may be the way to go.

[pindicator]

Stray questions/thoughts.

1) Any chance we can screw with tiles enough to bring BW in a turn earlier without sacrificing other stuff too much? That's our bottleneck right now it seems as settler is waiting on the chop essentially. BW 1T earlier means settler 1T earlier.

Right now my calculations say that we hit BW on the nose 179/179 on turn 27. So not unless we can convince Ceiliazul to make that cow riverside. Come on Ceil, you know you want to!

2) Is there chop overflow coming from worker? Guessing not, but if so, worth dumping that into settler for a turn given IMP?

There is a little bit, and it's what gets the warrior finished on t31. It wouldn't be enough to speed the settler up a turn anyway, because what finishes the settler are two chops coming on t34.

3) Definitely interested in a version of this that ignores the cow and goes straight mining-bw while farming the sugars. Wouldn't be shocked if earlier chop access out-performs the pasture hammers. This may even lead to waiting on the WB.

You read my mind! I did that one next ... but it's actually not as good! At least the first draft isn't:

2. SIP. Go worker > warrior > settler and aim for a fast settler. Might be the right choice if we find a great 2nd city location nearby.

Build order: worker (14), worker (24), grow on warrior (25-27), swap to settler for chops (28), swap back to warrior then grow to 2 (31), back to settler for completion (34).
1st worker: move, then farm southern sugar (20), move to forest W of city, chop into 2nd worker (24), move, chop into settler (28), pasture cows (30)
2nd worker: move, then chop into settler (28), pasture cows (30).
Tech: Mining (6), BW (20), Hunting (28), Writing (37)

So yeah, that's actually worse and with just as many trees chopped. The issues are (1) we don't grow as fast to size 2 and so don't get as much production making workers slower, and (2) not working that clam actually slows down our tech considerably, as you can see with Writing coming 2 turns later in this variant. We could speed up the settler by not pasturing the cows, but I dont' see how that's a good thing, haha.

This does make me want to explore setting on the sugar or on the plains hill, because I think that's the only way that this type of opening can compete.

Truthfully, what's hurting us is picking America. China would be awesome here, and Egypt would be fine. But I think America pretty much forces our hand for going wb first. Maybe the other options will see that different, though!