Want to see something depressing?
Take a look at current demos (and gnp in particular):
Now, occasionally having half the gnp of the leader might still be somewhat ok, but there's a few aggravating factors to point out.
Cons:
It's not just me that's backwards, it's the entire field that is behind REM.
If REM was sacrificing other categories this might be ok, but I believe he's number one in crop yield and production as well.
This is me researching above break-even at 100% and I've got loads more science than gold multipliers.
Grasping at straws I can see a few things that might explain (some of) this difference or possibilities for closing the gap. Pros:
I'm researching a tech known by no one, so no ktb.
I'll improve my science output in 5t when Oxford comes online, hopefully REM has already built his.
Representation will be a decent shot in the arm once I get constitution and do the civic swap.
REMs conquests (Commodore in particular, but Elkad as well) should be fairly well consolidated while my conquest of Fenn is still ongoing / cities growing into good tiles. I also should have a larger percentage of relatively new island settlements.
We've both had our 1-GP-GAs, but providing we're both going for 4 GAs, then I have 12 more turns of Golden age left.
REM could theoretically research a tech with multiple arrow bonuses(?) or decent ktb.
REM could be feeling fairly secure and having cities on wealth/science builds instead of units/infra.
While still on the subject of science I'll post a pic of what tech each player has available:
I might've missed something, but in general I believe other players to have these techs compared to me:
So, perhaps dtay isn't completely out of the running yet? Especially since he's on the technologically more backwards continent, but he sure has a lot of catching up to do.
If Gav can crush HAK AND Boak really quickly perhaps he also could get a place at the races, but that's an even bigger undertaking.
Currently I think I'd rank players more or less in tiers.
Tier 1 - Runaway:
REM
Tier 2 - Runner-up:
taotao
Tier 3 - Still with a shot to win:
dtay
Gavagai
Tier 4 - Could survive to the end if things go their way:
Donovan Zoi
Barteq
Adrien
Plako
Borsche
Tier 5 - Will die eventually, question is how long they will hang on.
HAK
Boak
Ichabod
Yuri
Fenn
Hopefully I'll have the time and energy to do a proper stitch once Fenns last city is incorporated into my realm (t171 by current estimates, but when does everything ever go perfectly according to plan?), but for now I'll just provide an overview through the military advisor screen:
As you (might) see, I've got a very elongated civ from North to South with lots of water (requiring troops in almost every city if don't want to risk the occasional lazy raze from an opponent).
I'll go through some of my more important cities one by one, but first a look at what all cities are currently building with 2t to steel:
Oravais:
After some hesitation I decided to put Oxford here. Jutas might get a slightly higher base yield, but it won't be a big difference after harbour and customs house are built. I'll also get it up at about double the speed here in Oravais.
After Oxford it'll grab a couple extra towns from Pyhäjoki and I might grow it to size 20 (replacing mines with windmills?). Question is whether it's worth building a lighthouse and dike for two 2/2/3 tiles?
Lapua:
Heroic Epic city. Has produced 3-promo knights for a long while and will probably continue to do so for some time still.
Jutas:
Commerce powerhouse. I've got a few cities optimised for commerce, but Jutas might just be the best. Was originally settled as a semi-aggressive plant against DZ in his previous incarnation and personally I considered putting NE here, but faith and mackoti wanted otherwise.
Nummijärvi:
All the lovely forests went into MoM, it's been drafted and whipped, but I'm still finding new ways to gain value from this mistreated outpost.
I actually haven't made a firm decision on what to do with the GP coming out next turn. The original plan was to save it for my 3-person GA, but I guess it depends a bit on what I get:
Spy -> Save for 3 (or 4!) person GA. Do some scouting in the meantime. At the very least I want to get a proper look at DZs lands.
Artist -> GA. 2 or 3 person is a bit up in the air though. Current Tech plan is first finish steel and then RepParts. If I decide to slot in Constitution after that though it might be wise to quickly use it on the 2-person one to close the research gap to REM.
Engineer -> GA is an option, but I need to seriously consider if I want to challenge REM for SoL. 25-30 cities doesn't make it amazing in my eyes, but I'd rather it'd be me having it than REM with ~40 cities...
Palva:
My NE city. It's vulnerable to boating from REM and it's got a few more building to build (since I'm not running Caste) and sizes to grow, but for an astro island it sure is getting there. The bananas will probably be changed to a plantation soon, but at the start hammers seemed (slightly) more in demand.
Sandöström:
On the same island as Palva I've got this decent city. Currently building Globe. Palva could've used the happiness, but in case I get myself in a pickle it'd be good to have a city I can draft relentlessly.
Sveaborg:
Moai city. Will be even nicer once I get a dike. Actually, I considered putting Ironworks here since I won't get the river hammers usually achieved by river tiles ( ). It really will be almost a toss-up between my alternatives for IW. Currently I'm leaning toward it going to Alavo though.
Alavo:
(picture missing)
Has been my best hammer city for some time, but will soon start to be challenged. IW might turn the tide once again though. I really should grow this city by claiming the fp-farm to the north from Virta, but that also means starving that city down a few sizes. It's the right thing to do, but oh, so hard...
Ruona:
Ruona? you say, where is that? Well, Ruona is decidedly one of my newer cities, but an important one even so. In two turns I'll finish the Forbidden Palace here on the south tip of my large western island. After this costs should really go down by a fair bit in any newly settled locations and in old Inca.
Other cities:
Mondatta - great hybrid city. IW candidate, but has 3 towns (that I can't pave over) which makes me think it can continue being a hybrid.
Zenyatta - Old Zulu Capital. Good commerce city with a bit of a hybrid focus as well
Cuzco - Incan Cap. My only academy + a settled prophet. Will need to grow a lot before really contributing though.
Ollantaytambo - Showed it a couple turns ago when it was captured. 3 settled military instructors(9) makes it interesting. If I get 22 more war-xp I could build a military academy(1) and settle one more gg(3). With West Point(5), Barracks(3), Vassalage(2), Stable(2) and a Colosseum(1) I could get 26xp horse units (c4 commando cavalry) and 23xp gunpowder units (d4 commando infantry). It's very much a long time project/investment. It's an uncertain one in that the city is right on the border with DZ. It would be amazing if I could get it rolling thogh
Great pair of updates!! What civics are you running right now? And what are others running, out of curiosity? I know this version of the mod had a bunch of civic shakeups compared to 2.0.7.6, which is the last version I've played.
(April 15th, 2016, 03:43)GermanJoey Wrote: Great pair of updates!! What civics are you running right now? And what are others running, out of curiosity? I know this version of the mod had a bunch of civic shakeups compared to 2.0.7.6, which is the last version I've played.
Myself I'm running these civics:
Government column hasn't really had any work.
I'm in HR because it's my only choice. Representation would be much better. US I could see as potentially useful, but probably more for someone like DZ or Gav rocking a US,FM, Kremlin combo than my own science buildings, mercantilism set up.
Legal is mostly unchanged. I've starting to become too large for bureau (though I haven't done the math). I've done one stint in nationhood (and have 29 muskets to show for it). Might do another after Rifling, but I'm far from sure. Enviro gives (from memory) 3 health, 1gold/specialist and 1g/farm/pasture. I've got just under 70 farms/pastures worked atm so definitely an option if I'm not building troops (need economics for it though).
Labor has seen a change. Serfdom and Emancipation give 2 scientist/merchant/artist slots. Emancipation also gives 1g for each mine and non-town cottage type improvement (I've got slightly below 50 cottage-type improvements, but most are closing in on being towns by now). Right now I want to stay in serfdom until levees have started to kick in, afterwards I'll have to re-evaluate. Don't have that many workshops, so it's hard to tell what might be best...
In economy mercantilism now still give you foreign trade routes. Could see arguments for at least fm and sp, but don't think I'll switch any time soon.
Religion wise I sure could've used OR in some spells, but got involved in the first CH/Fenn war just as I was about to really start spreading taoism and had do abandon missionary spam. FR is the easy option out.
As for others they're currently in these civics:
Got to run now, but I'll leave you a quickly composed picture of the settling situation on the south island.
I've got settlers on two of the c?-signs, 1S of corn and on a boat close to the "alt c"-banana sign.
btw. REM just got music and is presumably heading for MilTrad and cossacks. Exciting times
REM is starting to get on my nerves.
Last turn he dropped off a settler on my intended banana-city location on the south island. My EI was 1 tile from being able to do the same the turn before (and I had dropped off a worker and knight to show my intentions).
This will now be the 3rd! city REM gets on the island instead of me just because he's first in our internal peacetime turn split.
I actually entertained the idea of declaring war on him for a good 10 minutes before deciding it wasn't worth it and going the peaceful route. I probably could've killed 3 of his galleons with my EIs, so there was some advantage to be had. If I had had a military unit on my southernmost EI, that could've sealed the deal as I then also could've razed a size 7 empty city of his.
Now, well, I just started moving in units towards Fenns last city in what might become a tense battle.
I've got a civ that is wrapping its hand round the fist that is Donovan. Donovan got access to protective redcoats last turn and might feel opportunistic.
Meanwhile REM just got access to cossacks and have no other enemies. (One city of his borders DZ, but it would stretch both parties if they tried attacking in this direction. Plako and Borsche also have borders, but both are backwards and fighting Yuri in the other direction).
Domestically I'm also getting Replaceable Parts in 2t. That means almost all reasonably developed coastal cities of mine are going to want to start dikes pronto. After the dikes, some of the best production ones want to build drydocks. And yeah, speaking about production cities... My best one probably want to start a 14t Ironworks fairly soonish. So what about inland cities? Well, they probably want to actually build me my cannons. Or settlers for islands. All in all I feel like I've got better long-term investments than inviting a dogpile on my turf at the moment.
Perhaps this is me also being too infrastructure oriented? (Especially as I'm without OR?) That said, I'm second in soldier points with only dtay drafting up a lead of muskets on me.
Other news. Gavagai offered open borders to me.
I have offered once, but he demanded more money than I could spare at the moment (pre-astro on his part).
I offered again when he got astro himself, but he declined.
Now, finally, we're getting some lovely trade route income from each other.
So, not quite sure when I'm gonna squeeze in the turn today. Possibly past bedtime tonight, or then straight after work. Ah well, it'll work itself out. Anyway, I did a quick login just before work to check up on the game as a few interesting things have/could happen.
First mention goes to REM who declared on Gav and captured a city of his!
I have no vision on the matter, but it's fun to speculate is it not?
My guess is that some turns ago ~10-15?? Gav captured a barb city on one of the islands to his west (I believe I noticed something like that on civstats and I know that there were at least two barb cities there from when my galleon cruised by on the circum-navigation trip).
Gav has dtay far to his north that have access to galleons, but otherwise he can feel pretty safe on the islands, so it's quite possible that he left the city weakly defended or even empty.
What does this mean?
Well, it seems like REM wants to claim as many islands as possible to his northeast.
That again means I probably need to push settlers in that direction as well to try and limit REMs expansion to the best of my ability or else REM will just become too big. [Alternatively I go crazy on shipbuilding, try to sink REMs fleet/naval bases and then pick off his islands holdings at my leisure. All the while trying to keep my core from being razed by REMs superior military land units (so far only quality, he doesn't have that many units atm really, but I don't see it as impossible that he would soon launch a GA and switch into police state...) ].
Did this piss Gav off?
I hope so.
Gav is in my eyes the only one that could potentially provide me with help if I need to slow down REM from launching a spaceship towards the endgame.
Dtay is too far away. Plako and Borsche might join in if I first manage to take out half of REMs cities and military, but are simply too weak (and not in it to win it) to do stuff on their own. DZ is currently on similar military tech, but has too small a border with REM for it to be worth it for him.
Sadly I doubt it'll have much of an effect on Gav. Generally Gav tends to respect strength and though soldier points say that REM doesn't have that many units atm, he does appear strong. He's also preoccupied with taking out HAK. I'm hoping this will generate a response where Gav go heavy on navy and challenges REM, but yeah, that just seems like wishful thinking atm.
Secondly dtay got constitution this turn.
That's all fine and dandy to me, I'll get ktb when I research it, and as I've said before it's a great economic tech (also on the path to corporation which will further improve finances).
A couple of turns ago dtay got a Great Engineer though.
Actually, he's been in pacifism for quite some time even though he probably has the highest number of units of anyone in this game.
Is it just me or does this feel like he might be going all in on SoL?
Not sure how I feel about it if that's the case.
It'd be great if REM didn't get the wonder and it would be expensive for me...
Still, it's a great wonder and even though dtay for sure has lots of island cities he's not too small on the mainland either, especially not once he's eaten Ichabod...
To the turn.
I'm spotted a few redcoats, but so far DZ is keeping friendly. I might be at my most vulnerable state now in a while with many units in Fenn culture (and within his striking distance), but once/if his last city is captured it should be possible for me to shore up defences somewhat.
This turn will be one of some fun galleon chaining.
Last turn I finished steel and four cannons in Grozny, Ural, Mondatta and Zenyatta (blue in ss)
This turn I'll finish a road on the grassland hill and move the 3 remaining cannons onto the first EI.
Then do a switch to 5 other EI's and lurk with my cannons on my 5-mover outside Huamanga (it's possible for units to unload in a city when they have no movement points left, but you cant have them jump onto land by themselves). (yellow in ss)
Next turn I'll unload the cannons 1NW of Vilcos on the same tile as my main stack will move to (red in ss).
I know that this isn't anything that haven't been done before, but these kind of projects can be quite fun to figure out and I do get cannons in position 6t quicker than if I had moved them over land.
Got a new Great Person last turn.
Thought it would be a scientist or merchant and didn't really care either way as it would be used alongside an artist for my 2-man GA. Then I looked at the log. Leonardo da Vinci... I got an Engineer. Darn.
Didn't think Leonardo wore those kind of pants, but hey, history has gotten it wrong many times before...
Don't get me wrong. An Engineer is a great Great Person to get
It's just that I'm not sure what to do with him.
A GA in about 3-4t would be really useful. I could switch to Representation and I'd just have my first dikes come online for some beautiful GA production.
On the other hand it feels kind of a wasteful a use for an Engineer. Should I instead challenge dtay for SoL? If I lose the wonder democracy really would be a pretty useless detour, but if I win it's a point for keeping my status as the number 2 civilisation.
On another matter dtay took 3 cities from Ichabod last turn. Am I comfortable with him sitting right next to my core with his 6-move boats? Should I be sneaky and ferry over some settlers to the closest peninsula (where dtay razed some cities) for when the capital falls? How would dtay react? Annoyed of course, but could he accept that I want a buffer zone? (I'd try to defend them of course, but I don't think there's any safe way of defending cities on the other continent against a determined attack).
If I'm anyway plotting different ways of keeping dtay in check, should I just take my gloves off and try to raze his HE-city?
It's fairly close to me and coastal, so could fall to a surprise boating. I believe he's got 2 settled GGs there and it sure would be nice to get rid of his (future) nav2-vessels...
Thinking about it, I believe I'm going to save the GE for now. I can get another GP (for a GA) from Palva in 9t (<5% chance of artist). I've got other cities above 200gpp, but even so they won't beat Palva to 600gpp if I'm going for speed...
This turn I'm saving money (Oxford due next turn). Afterwards I'll go Rifling followed by Constitution. If dtay hasn't gotten democracy by then he's probably not prioritising the wonder terribly and I might be in with a decent shot. I'll have to check the timings there, but I might well delay the democracy push until I've got Ironworks in Alavo ready. Sure, every turn I delay increases the possibility of getting beaten, but from a risk management perspective that could still be a decent trade off.
What to do with the GE if not SoL I'll get to when/if that happens. Slavery/US isn't the best fit for my civ, but there are lots of 1-tile deer islands that would get a lot more interesting if I had access to "hurryable" lighthouses, dikes and granaries (->Kremlin). There's also Hoover dam that I like a little bit too much (though health might well become a problem here). Or Pentagon. And what about the Internet, is that a wonder or project in this mod? (will check next time I'm logged in).
Speaking of hurrying production, anyone remembers the formula for that from the top of their heads?
(I've got a feeling it might've been something like 500h+20h*pop, but that might be wrong).
And while I'm asking about formulas, anyone know the ep-formula for city visibility?
I'm dumping most of my ep's into REM every turn, but I'm still afraid his lead is enough to watch my every move...
Congratulations if you've made it this far in my ramblings
One final note from the turn.
Fenn decided to suicide his 3 cats against my stack last turn and followed it up by killing two formation knights without further losses. Not the greatest event from my view, but still I feel a lot safer knowing that the cats are out of the picture. Unless he gets really lucky with killing my cannons next/the following turn it should require a small miracle for him to survive the attack in two turns (next turn I'll just bombard defenses down to 0%).
Turn 170 has been played and I got to do something I've wanted to do for a long time...
I got to settle on deer!
There are lots of 1-tile deer islands dotted around the map.
Most of them have one fish or clam resource and nothing else.
Also, in some cases I've manage to claim the seafood with a major island city, making deer island even worse.
Some islands are slightly better though and this is such an example.
Little Jynkkä here can chop one forest into the granary and at size 2 should also have a workshop to help with the lighthouse. Then it's only a matter of waiting for the workshop and some citizen-"specialists" to finish the dike and it can start growing on productive tiles for real!
Elsewhere I know of two deer islands that I want to settle as sentry posts against dtay, but if I decide to slot in some slavery/US time in the future, this number might go up by quite a bit.
As for the war, this was the turn I was supposed to strip Vilcas of its cultural defenses.
Only it had slipped my mind that bombardment percentage losses starts from 100% and not the "city defense" percentage shown in the regular interface. Long story short, units in Vilcas still get +16% defense from culture
Not entirely sure what to do next turn now. I could spend another turn on bombardment (quite likely if Fenns last whip was walls), but think I'm leaning towards yolo'ing it and trying to end it. I believe my cannons should do a decent number on the muskets (though it's not certain that they'll kill them) and I believe I should get on average of over 2 collateral hits on all his other units. I guess this is a time where simming the battle really could be helpful, but don't think I'll manage to convince myself it's worth it to get a full picture of what happens with different cultural percentages, luck on the main musket etc. etc.
This is the situation come the last stand.
I believe I added two more knights after this count, and I've got 4 hitters on a ship within striking distance if things go badly.
Hopefully I'm underestimating the effect of my own siege (that should've been a few units stronger) and I won't lose more than a few knights though
). It really will be almost a toss-up between my alternatives for IW. Currently I'm leaning toward it going to Alavo though.
