[LURKERS] Mr. Gradgrind's Review

[El Grillo]

Now here I come on to a concern - been thinking about this more and more and really I think we should have played this as a sequential PB IMO. The issue is the oil, or lack of it and when production occurs. With production occurring at the turn roll only after everyone has moved this creates a HUGE advantage in the oil age of warfare. Any resource that is disconnected by playing second will invalidate and waste all attempted production by the chap who plays first. In ancient era games this isn't so much of an issue, because if a resource is pillaged there are land units preventing it being rehooked. Also there is redundancy in both copper/iron being hooked and often people will be able to acquire multiple copies.

However here each player has only 2 oils, 1 land and 1 sea based. With the sea based one not being available to plastics I feel it can safely be discounted, so each player has 1 original oil in quite a vulnerable place. The first person to fighters could easily make it a nightmare for it to stay connected, and the other player completely unable to build oil based units.

Usually by this point there are only a few contenders, and they have multiple oils throughout the empire. However here most of us will have 1 copy of oil each on land. Not quite sure what the answer is here but this gives the second player such an advantage in a war I wonder if there needs to perhaps be an addendum where workers can be moved after the second player has played perhaps? I'm just unsure regular rules are not gonna cut it here...

I would be grateful if there were some lurker discussions perhaps in the lurker thread. I would hate for a war to be decided based on turn order.

Thoughts, everyone? It looks like most players settled close enough to the Oil before discovering Scientific Method, invalidating settling on top of it.

[Tohron]

Would it be enough to allow workers parked near or on top of the oil to re-improve it after enemy units have moved? This requires players to invest in keeping their oil secure, without crippling them completely.
Without that option, the only alternative would be having several SAM Infantry on the oil tile - a significant extra tech requirement for the player who isn't first to fighters.

[The Black Sword]

I'm somewhat spoiled. I'm reading Dreylin's thread, but I'm being very careful not to let anything slip that isn't already under discussion in the Sculla thread (or is my own idea). Don't want to compromise this awesome game!

The problem is that Dreylin invading BGN wasn't really discussed in Scooter's thread before you brought it up. It's not an immediately obvious consequence from their perspective. On the other hand if you're reading Dreylin's thread where they're writing up invasion plans it does come to mind.

It's not a high-impact comment but you don't want players to feel punished for reporting their plans.

I would be grateful if there were some lurker discussions perhaps in the lurker thread. I would hate for a war to be decided based on turn order.

I became convinced after PB18 that the turnsplit should go 1-2-1 in the modern era. In the 1st players 'second turn' he's allowed to micro his cities and workers but move no other units. It's not just a case of pillaging resources, pillaging normal improvements and invalidating my city micro was very demoralising. The turns became a chore to me for a while before we switched turn splits.

[Tohron]

I'm somewhat spoiled. I'm reading Dreylin's thread, but I'm being very careful not to let anything slip that isn't already under discussion in the Sculla thread (or is my own idea). Don't want to compromise this awesome game!

The problem is that Dreylin invading BGN wasn't really discussed in Scooter's thread before you brought it up. It's not an immediately obvious consequence from their perspective. On the other hand if you're reading Dreylin's thread where they're writing up invasion plans it does come to mind.

It's not a high-impact comment but you don't want players to feel punished for reporting their plans.

I would be grateful if there were some lurker discussions perhaps in the lurker thread. I would hate for a war to be decided based on turn order.

I became convinced after PB18 that the turnsplit should go 1-2-1 in the modern era. In the 1st players 'second turn' he's allowed to micro his cities and workers but move no other units. It's not just a case of pillaging resources, pillaging normal improvements and invalidating my city micro was very demoralising. The turns became a chore to me for a while before we switched turn splits.

Guess I just thought that Dreylin attacking anyone would be something people would consider, since he has borders with everyone and has been very aggressive (and I never implied it was likely, just that it was possible). I'll be more restrained in the future.

And that turnsplit idea sounds good, imo.

[Zalson]

Would it be too leading to ask each of the teams what they consider the other players' strategies to be? I hesitate to ask because that might tip the impending Donovan Zoi/Dreylin conflict to Scooter and REM.

[GermanJoey]

It's a bit leading to do it right now, Zalson, especially since both Scooter, Sulla, and REM all posted some thoughts on other players just a few days ago... maybe once things cool down, it'd be ok.

TBS, I think your turnsplit suggestion sounds good, and it might be a good idea to raise the issue in the tech thread now, before the next war starts. Besides oil, which nobody has hooked yet, coal is also a huge deal to have cut off on the second half. (not that you had any experience with that one in particular in PB18. )

What do people think of Scooter/Sulla's frenzied push for the Pentagon? For a whopping 1000 hammers at a time when they critically need every hammer they can scrounge up, I wouldn't think its worth it... unless they also land the Fascism general for West Point, in order to get them so much closer to that magic 17XP number. If not, all it does is let them run Free Religion instead of Theocracy.

[Zed-F]

Doesn't seem very frenzied if they use a GE for it; in that case the opportunity cost is low, and it looks like they do stand a good chance of getting Fascism GG.

[Zalson]

It's a bit leading to do it right now, Zalson, especially since both Scooter, Sulla, and REM all posted some thoughts on other players just a few days ago... maybe once things cool down, it'd be ok.

Yeah -- I suspect that might tip Dreylin's attack plan. I'll hold off.

I'm just curious about the collective ability to assess other strategies...

[Jabah]

Here in this situation, we could stage in the city of Radio (unseen by Donovan),

I thing that is the second time Sullla wrote something like that.

AFAIK, the horses being on a hill 2SW of Radio, Donovan should have visibility on Radio.
Am I missing something obvious or is Sullla overlooking the situation ?

Was he just meaning hiding units inside boats in the city, Donovan might be smelling something fishy if he sees plenty of frigates and galleons there ....

[Fluffball]

DZ can definitely see radio, you can see it in his screenshots even. I think sulla is just missing the hill because they can't see Sector 19.