[LURKERS] Mr. Gradgrind's Review

[Fluffball]

DZ can definitely see radio, you can see it in his screenshots even. I think sulla is just missing the hill because they can't see Sector 19. I'm not sure it even matters because dreyote will probably beat them to the DZ attack by about 2 weeks anyway.

[Zed-F]

They will probably adjust their timetable when Dreylin declares. They don't need as much stuff to attack with if Donovan's defenses are mostly on Dreylin's border.

[Epoxy]

Scooter mentioned that BGN might get suspicious of the construction race due to my recent comment in his thread. While I do want to know if BGN is building the Pentagon, I made my post vague in that direction.

How's your expansion plan going so far? Do you need more city names?

Should I clarify to Scooter that I didn't say anything spoilery and enable him peace of mind? That is, if my post was non-spoilery after all.

[Gaspar]

Good general rule for global lurkers - keep your posts off-topic or in response to their questions. The more questions you ask, the more you impact the game and that almost always skews in favor of the more popular players. Basically, if you've read this thread in any way or more than one individual thread, keep all your commentary and questions in here.

Backtracking in the fashion you suggest Epoxy is just more suspicious.

[Epoxy]

Good general rule for global lurkers - keep your posts off-topic or in response to their questions. The more questions you ask, the more you impact the game and that almost always skews in favor of the more popular players. Basically, if you've read this thread in any way or more than one individual thread, keep all your commentary and questions in here.

Backtracking in the fashion you suggest Epoxy is just more suspicious.

Thanks, Gaspar. I hope I haven't skewed things too much (and they're pretty skewed already).

[GermanJoey]

Doesn't seem very frenzied if they use a GE for it; in that case the opportunity cost is low, and it looks like they do stand a good chance of getting Fascism GG.

I agree that the use of a GE reduces their risk somewhat... they need to land both the wonder and the General for both to be worth it IMHO, and using a GE lets them accelerate the Fascism date by 700h worth of wealth (or soldiers) in the meantime. OTOH, spending the GE would also delay their second Golden Age, which I don't think they should do for two big reasons. First of all, throwing a GA right after all their factory+CP are online would give them a super-commanding hammer advantage (as all the bonus hammers would now get a nice +75% multiplier as well) that could open up the game for them in a big way. Second of all, both Dreylin and REM are planning to throw a GA soon as well, meaning that Scooter/Sulla may be forced back towards playing reactively right when they're itching to get out there and clobber a neighbor.

Thus, to me, the Pentagon just feels like... I guess I would call it an extravagant build? Maybe a luxurious build? Something that'd be really nice to have but comes at a high cost. (an opportunity cost in this case) Even with the pentagon, they'll need Theocracy + WP + 2 GGs (or 1GG + Vassalage) to hit 17XP, which implies a successful war at minimum...

[picklepikkl]

Thus, to me, the Pentagon just feels like... I guess I would call it an extravagant build? Maybe a luxurious build? Something that'd be really nice to have but comes at a high cost. (an opportunity cost in this case) Even with the pentagon, they'll need Theocracy + WP + 2 GGs (or 1GG + Vassalage) to hit 17XP, which implies a successful war at minimum...

"Win more" is a term I've seen thrown around for this sort of thing.

[GermanJoey]

Good general rule for global lurkers - keep your posts off-topic or in response to their questions. The more questions you ask, the more you impact the game and that almost always skews in favor of the more popular players. Basically, if you've read this thread in any way or more than one individual thread, keep all your commentary and questions in here.

Backtracking in the fashion you suggest Epoxy is just more suspicious.

Thanks, Gaspar. I hope I haven't skewed things too much (and they're pretty skewed already).

Don't fret too much, your comment isn't too bad by itself in isolation... it's just good to be careful because a lotta little comments can add up to paranoia in a player's mind and lurker excitement for this game is quite high.

"Win more" is a term I've seen thrown around for this sort of thing.

Oh yeah, that's a very concise and accurate way to put it!

[Mardoc]

Good general rule for global lurkers - keep your posts off-topic or in response to their questions. The more questions you ask, the more you impact the game and that almost always skews in favor of the more popular players. Basically, if you've read this thread in any way or more than one individual thread, keep all your commentary and questions in here.

Backtracking in the fashion you suggest Epoxy is just more suspicious.

Thanks, Gaspar. I hope I haven't skewed things too much (and they're pretty skewed already).

Don't fret too much, your comment isn't too bad by itself in isolation... it's just good to be careful because a lotta little comments can add up to paranoia in a player's mind and lurker excitement for this game is quite high.

Honestly, Epoxy, your comment is fine. Part of the concern is paranoia, and part of it is that Scooter is so good at reading people that he assumes everyone can pick up on all the little details. And a general attitude of 'err on the side of caution.'

It's more that there are *so* many new commenters that it makes sense to reiterate the lurker code. At its heart, the goal is simple: remember that the game is for the players, not the lurkers, and don't ever do anything that might put a reporter at a disadvantage compared to if they kept their mouth shut. Back in the early days, people would generally only talk about wonders and wars the turn after they happened. I like to hear the plans, but we can only get that if lurkers are careful.

In practice, this comes down to a few specific rules:
- Don't comment on options, strategies, plans, except that you may answer specific questions about game mechanics. For example, 'what is the formula for # of hammers an engineer makes?' is fine to answer, but if someone doesn't ask, don't point out that their engineer won't quite be able to finish a wonder on his own.
- Don't ask leading questions. Especially don't ask things like 'what turn do you finish your wonder/tech?', 'what's your military looking like these days?', 'what would you do if...' Remember that almost always you'll get an answer to the question of who gets there first if you just wait for it to happen .
- Especially don't comment on first-to bonuses, wonders, and wars. Exception: lurkers may always advocate for MOAR BLOOD, so long as they make it clear they don't have the best interest of the team in mind .
- When in doubt, talk in the lurker thread, not the players' threads. Err on the side of caution. Better to post a hundred times in here with things that would have been ok, than to post once in a way that would spoil something.
- As a side note, some games call for more paranoia than others. The more seriously teams are taking the game, the more seriously the lurkers need to take it as well. Newbie/casual games can generally get a little more help from the lurkers - although take it case-by-case and err on the side of caution if you're not sure.

The goal isn't just to be fair. It's to be blatantly, obviously, fair. In the end, it's not enough to not influence the game. You need to be sure that a player who just lost the game, who is tired and disappointed and cranky and maybe a little bit angry, on top of being biased, can't find any excuse to think a lurker influenced the game.

[LucyFur]

Thanks for posting that Mardoc. As one of the aforementioned newbies, I've been generally afraid to post anything at all game-related in the player threads for fear of letting something slip. I think I'll keep it that way!

I wish I knew this game better though. While it's fun to watch the turns roll and read everyone's comments, I'm afraid I can't add much that's very constructive to mechanics discussions.