I plan to code a civ2 clone: shameless self-promotion

[HansLemurson]

There is some satisfaction in simplicity. There is a lot of surprising complexity in Civ2 though that I hadn't realized until I was reading up on expert play strategies a year ago. Though given that they revolved around Caravan Spam and Rapture Growth, this might not be a problem for you.

However, I think this then begins to run into one of the big problems that all Civ2 clone projects have: Nobody dares to actually reproduce Civ2 accurately, because there's always something in it that they didn't like and wanted to change.

[Hail]

However, I think this then begins to run into one of the big problems that all Civ2 clone projects have: Nobody dares to actually reproduce Civ2 accurately, because there's always something in it that they didn't like and wanted to change.

caravan value should be in the options menu:
1. base_value
2. distance_value_multiplier (ocen tiles add more than land tiles)
3. foreign_nation_multiplier
4. demanded_good_mutliplier

likewise for rapture growth.

an accurate reproduction must retain quirks like -50% caravan yield after discovery of Railroads, inability to build space modules before 1 A.D., etc.
why keep those?

[HansLemurson]

"Just make it an optional setting" has always struck me as lazy game design. Sure, things should be configurable somewhere for the purposes of modding and strong preferences, but it's the designer's job to decide what the "Default Values" should be.

How do you think Caravans and Rapture-growth ought to work?

[GermanJoey]

Do you have any plans to make a better AI?

[DaveV]

what is black clicking?

You could click any square on the map, including the unexplored ones, and the program would display XY coordinates and continent (or body of water) number. By clicking enough squares you could get a very good idea of the layout of the map.

A similar trick: in the city screen, it would show the units supported by the city and which city on the map they were currently closest to (including cities you haven't seen yet). So if your unit was at least ten squares away from your own (Roman) cities and a unit showed Paris as the nearest city, you knew that Paris was less than ten squares from that unit. This was called "city triangulation", because a couple exploring units could pretty well nail down the location of enemy cities in the unexplored part of the map.

I hated both of these exploits, because hidden information is a key part of the game for me. I have a similar complaint about the way people use flying camera in Civ 4 to map out shorelines, hills, and mountain ranges in the fog.

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

I would suggest removing the ability of settlers/explorers IE 0 attack units to capture cities.

I wonder if road movement should be changed? 2/3 or 1/3 chance to use the rest of your movement was always a little unpredictable. But this could be a bit extreme if it went like 4 and just allowed everything.

[Hail]

"Just make it an optional setting" has always struck me as lazy game design. Sure, things should be configurable somewhere for the purposes of modding and strong preferences, but it's the designer's job to decide what the "Default Values" should be.

How do you think Caravans and Rapture-growth ought to work?

rapture growth is too strong. it must be reworked, but I am not sure how. add +% to food suplus?
if the classical mechanic is kept, should the AI embrace it?

caravan yields dominate all others. that must be toned down, but at the same time, those that prefer the classical civ2 caravan yields have the right to get them ( a civ2 clone after all!). both camps can only be satisfied by making the values easily modifiable.

Do you have any plans to make a better AI?

some AI has to be made, dunno if it will be better.

I hated both of these exploits, because hidden information is a key part of the game for me. I have a similar complaint about the way people use flying camera in Civ 4 to map out shorelines, hills, and mountain ranges in the fog.

agree, these need to go.

I would suggest removing the ability of settlers/explorers IE 0 attack units to capture cities.

I wonder if road movement should be changed? 2/3 or 1/3 chance to use the rest of your movement was always a little unpredictable. But this could be a bit extreme if it went like 4 and just allowed everything.

agree on the first point.

so it was chance-based. hm... yeah this must go too. probably will go the civ4 route.
probability-based mechanic to loose a trireme at sea must be dropped too. I will add a coastal terrain type. triremes can only traverse those.

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

"Just make it an optional setting" has always struck me as lazy game design. Sure, things should be configurable somewhere for the purposes of modding and strong preferences, but it's the designer's job to decide what the "Default Values" should be.

How do you think Caravans and Rapture-growth ought to work?

rapture growth is too strong. it must be reworked, but I am not sure how. add +% to food suplus?
if the classical mechanic is kept, should the AI embrace it?

caravan yields dominate all others. that must be toned down, but at the same time, those that prefer the classical civ2 caravan yields have the right to get them ( a civ2 clone after all!). both camps can only be satisfied by making the values easily modifiable.

Do you have any plans to make a better AI?

some AI has to be made, dunno if it will be better.

I hated both of these exploits, because hidden information is a key part of the game for me. I have a similar complaint about the way people use flying camera in Civ 4 to map out shorelines, hills, and mountain ranges in the fog.

agree, these need to go.

I would suggest removing the ability of settlers/explorers IE 0 attack units to capture cities.

I wonder if road movement should be changed? 2/3 or 1/3 chance to use the rest of your movement was always a little unpredictable. But this could be a bit extreme if it went like 4 and just allowed everything.

agree on the first point.

so it was chance-based. hm... yeah this must go too. probably will go the civ4 route.
probability-based mechanic to loose a trireme at sea must be dropped too. I will add a coastal terrain type. triremes can only traverse those.

It was also probability based that a 2 move unit might make it onto flat then hill for example. Plus attacking after movement was penalised at 2/3 or 1/3 strength. This is there as with out cultural borders your catapults/cannon would be charging in and attacking easily... Probably need to keep that at least.

People at peace constantly wondering onto tiles and stopping them doing anything and having to enter diplo to get them to shift was a pain. More annoying if they refused diplo because you recently talked to them.

Whack a mole pollution? Or even more bizarre solar plants that absorbed heat and reduced GW through that?!

Are you gonna act out all the old high council discussions?

Are you gonna try and balance anything else? Most of the stuff I mentioned were irritating mechanics.

[Bobchillingworth]

It has been years since I played, but didn't you get free techs for capturing enemy cities? I seem to recall exploiting that a lot as a kid.


Also the entire implementation on the N/S Poles was really silly. The AI would build enormous chains of roads and forts stretching across them, but they were otherwise totally open for the human player to colonize.

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

It has been years since I played, but didn't you get free techs for capturing enemy cities? I seem to recall exploiting that a lot as a kid.


Also the entire implementation on the N/S Poles was really silly. The AI would build enormous chains of roads and forts stretching across them, but they were otherwise totally open for the human player to colonize.

The AI fort chain! God that was amusing. Yeah you did get a free tech on city capture but you could turn it off with the cheat menu.

The cheat menu! Remember the cheat tab! That was amusing...

I also remember the AI could not cross the 0,0 line, and used to go right around the map instead XD