[LURKERS] Mr. Gradgrind's Review

[Old Harry]

I guess you could just present both options to the players and let them choose. For me the benefits of 1-2-1 easily outweight the extra complexity.

The thing I like best about your approach is that playing first becomes the better option. I'm always in favour of encouraging people to play early on the clock.

While sequential turns probably wouldn't work with this many players I wonder how hard it would be to mod the game so that all your production happens when you end turn. Might lead to clock games over getting first-to bonuses, but it'd be better for wars - both ancient and modern.

Btw tbs - the unfairness of the air power was one of the reasons I didn't ask to switch the timer back again after Yuri finished subbing for you. I then really regretted that decision .

[Fluffball]

With 3 players about to be at war with him within 4 turns, let's watch Dreylin absolutely maul his own citizens into usefulness. I want to see an overview shot of a couple dozen cities all with (1) next to their production indicator.

I expect BGN and pindicator to dogpile him as well, since both of those players are trying to commit suicide. They might accidentally make themselves relevant if they aren't careful and take some dreylin cities. BGN looks like he's in a pretty good position to scavenge some, since he borders dreylin on the fronts REM and scooter will be attacking.

Edit: Actually scratch all of this. With AL coming in before sulla's planned attack, I think it's dead before it even starts; I'm not sure they'll even attempt it and maybe consider going for tanks instead?? Dreylin is looking pretty unstoppable right now.

[Tohron]

Given that Dreylin is only going to get stronger as time passes (and that they'll have started a countdown for REM by the time Dreylin gets AL), I think scooter/Sullla will just go for it anyway and hope their superior promotions and the dogpile effect will be enough to compensate. If they hit on 223, Dreylin will have some upgraded infantry, but won't have been able to upgrade his entire force. They definitely don't want to give Dreylin a chance to industrialize all his cities.

[Mardoc]

If REM starts skirmishing with Dreylin next turn, as planned, then I think Scooter absolutely goes for it. I have to believe REM being at war will cut into Dreylin's tech rate, maybe hurt Dreylin's power or at least pull him out of position to defend against Scooter.

The main thing we have going for us, in terms of maximum blood, is that Scooter really doesn't want to come in second place. Even if he convinces himself not to attack Dreylin (maybe he thinks REM will stalemate with him or something) then I bet Scooter pivots to hit Pindicator.

[Fluffball]

I have to believe REM being at war will cut into Dreylin's tech rate

Good call, I forget Dreylin had open borders with him, and he just posted they need that to hit AL in 2 turns. I think they'll still get it and get some infantry before scooter can land, but I'm curious what all the details are. I guess we'll find out.

Edit: It's interesting we get a clearer military picture from Dreylin's insane scouting ability than from REM and scooter's threads combined.

[The Black Sword]

The thing I like best about your approach is that playing first becomes the better option. I'm always in favour of encouraging people to play early on the clock.

Does it? I didn't really think about whipping and drafting tbh, there's a decent argument that you shouldn't do so in your second part of the turnsplit. Certainly no draft -> move -> end turn -> move & attack.

Btw tbs - the unfairness of the air power was one of the reasons I didn't ask to switch the timer back again after Yuri finished subbing for you. I then really regretted that decision smoke.

I can imagine, I was so happy when I read that!

[Old Harry]

I think I was imagining that whipping and drafting would be part of city micro, but I can see an argument for minimal changes. If you're just thinking of tile management does that allow for changing builds too?

If workers can move can bodyguard units accompany them?

[Tohron]

I think I was imagining that whipping and drafting would be part of city micro, but I can see an argument for minimal changes. If you're just thinking of tile management does that allow for changing builds too?

If workers can move can bodyguard units accompany them?

I think city build changes would be allowed, since enemy units can destroy resources & occupy tiles, making micro changes necessary.

I don't think bodyguard movements would be allowed - if you anticipate an improvement being bombed, you could always move a bodyguard there just in case.

[Mardoc]

Wow, this is a weird case: teams on both sides of an issue providing info simultaneously!

Dreylin got Assembly Line with an assist by REM's trade routes.

I think REM giving him all those trade routes the whole game was a giant mistake.

78 commerce from trade routes with REM.

We get 78c from trade routes with REM, but those would be replaced by 2c routes from island cities. I went through and it's ~45c we'd actually lose.

45 out of a net ~1270 commerce. The rest comes from the cities themselves: Wealth/Research builds, natural trade routes, pillage/capture gold, specialists - these are the heart of Dreylin's economy. Plus, of course, most of their tech has been bulbs until very recently. It's simple: in this era, all cities are profitable, either immediately or almost immediately.

Perhaps if REM had boycotted Dreylin all game, they'd have been one turn later to Assembly Line - but of course REM would have less himself, and wouldn't be able to put forth as much of an attack. Maybe he wouldn't have been able to snipe the Physics scientist from them, either - which would have made up for it right there.

I have to disagree with Scooter and Sulla here. At most, REM giving Dreylin trade is a minor mistake. Arguably it's been in his best interest. It seems to be a problem on the same order of magnitude as their decision to evacuate the barb city in Gasparland instead of making Dreylin spend hammers on killing their garrison, anyway - maybe if they'd held then, Dreylin would have been delayed in finishing off Gaspar, not as successful against Donovan, and so on and so forth. At a cost to themselves, of course - but then trade route cancellation would cost REM, so it's the same argument.

[Rowain]

Dreylin has currently less production so as long REM and Scooter/Sulla stay committed to war they will wear him down.

If one of them bows out then it is over.