Caster of Magic - new retort?

[Bogus]

what about making alchemy cost 2 and not only giving magical weapons but eliminating the need to have a alchemists guild to use mithril/adamantium weapons? i would argue that the 1:1 exchange is quite powerful, possibly worth a pick alone or more, as it effectivly is a bonus to skill and/or research, unless you are seriously short on money.

while the magical weapons as such are a decent bonus at the start, you probably only are going to make a few units with it before you either have the guild anyway or find a source of ore and need the guild for better units. if you happen to start with both the retort and an ore you probably want to go for the ore bonus as soon as possible, which works against the retort. whenever you conquer a town of a race you want to have units of and there is an ore, you are likely the build a guild first so you can have those + 2 hammerhands etc, nullifying your retort bonus.

so basically this bonus is a mental burden the moment a single ore source appears on your map. its either "use your retort and do something that is actually worse than something you could do anyway a bit later, or dont use it at all".

[Seravy]

what about making alchemy cost 2 and not only giving magical weapons but eliminating the need to have a alchemists guild to use mithril/adamantium weapons? i would argue that the 1:1 exchange is quite powerful, possibly worth a pick alone or more, as it effectivly is a bonus to skill and/or research, unless you are seriously short on money.

while the magical weapons as such are a decent bonus at the start, you probably only are going to make a few units with it before you either have the guild anyway or find a source of ore and need the guild for better units. if you happen to start with both the retort and an ore you probably want to go for the ore bonus as soon as possible, which works against the retort. whenever you conquer a town of a race you want to have units of and there is an ore, you are likely the build a guild first so you can have those + 2 hammerhands etc, nullifying your retort bonus.

so basically this bonus is a mental burden the moment a single ore source appears on your map. its either "use your retort and do something that is actually worse than something you could do anyway a bit later, or dont use it at all".

I can't make a retort cost 2 without changing another to cost 1. The total number of 2 cost retorts need to be the same.
I believe the exchange is worth roughly 1 pick (not more though), and as you say the magical weapons are not worth much and only help in the early game. Overall the retort is closer to being worth 1 total than 2, I wouldn't even pay half of a pick for just the magical weapons. It only takes 5-6 turns to build an Alchemist's Guild, or 300 gold. Roughly the same cost it takes to buy one unit of the better ones like a Stag Beetle you would want to produce in your military center. So in the end, Alchemist only gives you 1 extra unit for the early game and that's it. Later you need the Alchemist Guild to unlock Amplifying Tower anyway, unless your race can't build one. (Also magical weapons give no benefit to shaman, priests and magicians, so if the game goes in the direction of mostly building those, it's worthless)

[zitro1987]

Can runemasters start with dispel magic and maybe disenchant area? (similar to how artificer starts with create artifact). I feel this retort is worth slightly below 2 picks because it doesn't help early game which is crucial in hard difficulties.

More thematic additions rather than significant balancing boosts
Can conjurers start with summoning circle already researched?
Can tactician start with heroic shout?

[Seravy]

Can runemasters start with dispel magic and maybe disenchant area? (similar to how artificer starts with create artifact). I feel this retort is worth slightly below 2 picks because it doesn't help early game which is crucial in hard difficulties.

More thematic additions rather than significant balancing boosts
Can conjurers start with summoning circle already researched?
Can tactician start with heroic shout?

I don't think either of these need this kind of advantage.
I like it on Artificier because it's not very useful for the early game. You get 2 spells to trade so the retort is useful before you can afford making items/artifacts.
However both Conjurer and Tactician are useful in the early game, and don't need a trade advantage.

I believe Summoning Circle should have a much lower research, though. 100 is quite high for an essential early game spell.

[zitro1987]

The reason why I'm suggesting runemasters starting with dispel magic is exactly the same reasoning behind artificer starting with create artifact - both retorts benefit you a little too late and they would be slightly underpowered otherwise (you mentioned runemaster being slightly underpowered in your 'worst wizard' new thread).

Having a free dispel magic will help you easily cancel the 'shatters' 'black sleeps' and other spells opposing wizard throws at you. What good is it if you have to spend (200-50=150) research points to even acquire it.

[Seravy]

The reason why I'm suggesting runemasters starting with dispel magic is exactly the same reasoning behind artificer starting with create artifact - both retorts benefit you a little too late and they would be slightly underpowered otherwise (you mentioned runemaster being slightly underpowered in your 'worst wizard' new thread).

Having a free dispel magic will help you easily cancel the 'shatters' 'black sleeps' and other spells opposing wizard throws at you. What good is it if you have to spend (200-50=150) research points to even acquire it.

Oh, Runemaster. I missed that part somehow, that's a better idea, although you get a research bonus on arcane spells already if you have Runemaster.
Edit : Runemaster is weak for a "worst wizard" game because it's only as strong as the enchantments that become harder to dispel. Since a Worst Wizard will most likely not get any good enchantments, runemaster would be weak for it. I believe that was my reason.