CHAOS Realm

[zitro1987]

About efreet, I wanted to mention it as your description states 'slightly better than a catapult'

a Regular catapult with magic weapons deals 0.3*16= 4.8 damage at long range and 0.4*16 = 6.4 at short range while efreet deals 0.5*18 = 9.0 at any range which is much more noticeable.

What makes the unit so powerful (when using it myself) is that it's good in almost every situation: high number of shots, impressive caster 40, flying, dealing decent melee damage when attacked, and high hp that allows it to survive against ranged attacks and spells. Even against a unit that can hit it, its 4 movement allows it to escape and continue shooting. At its best, I can easily kill a great wyrm with leftover ammo. At its worst, it can still do considerable damage before being defeated

Lowering the number of shots weakens its best strength, making it more jack-of-all trades. However, there are many different ways to tone the unit down to a level more comparable to other 'rare' creatures.

[Bogus]

remove the 1 maintanance on eldritch weapon? its effect is worse than holy weapon methinks.

[Seravy]

remove the 1 maintanance on eldritch weapon? its effect is worse than holy weapon methinks.

Let me think. Both grant the ability to bypass magical weapons so that part is identical.

Holy Weapon adds +1 to hit. Assuming a basic unit that's a 33% boost to damage output. (but only 25% on high elves or units already having magical weapons)
You generally want to cast Eldritch Weapon against highly armored units, so it's safe to assume the enemy at least has more shields then you have swords. Eldritch Weapon effectively cuts 33% of enemy shields away. So you get a 33% benefit on both spells but the latter is better if the enemy armor is high (and worse if it's low, obviously). These two spells are almost entirely identical.

Holy Weapon is better if
-Your To-Hit is 0 or lower
and/or
-The enemy has less armor than your attack power

Eldritch weapon is better if
-Your To-Hit is +1 or higher
and/or
-The enemy has more armor than your attack power

The reason why Eldritch Weapon has a maintenance is because Chaos is supposed to be less effective at buffing than Life.

[Anthony]

Holy Weapon is better if
-Your To-Hit is 0 or lower
and/or
-The enemy has less armor than your attack power

Eldritch weapon is better if
-Your To-Hit is +1 or higher
and/or
-The enemy has more armor than your attack power

The reason why Eldritch Weapon has a maintenance is because Chaos is supposed to be less effective at buffing than Life.

Not quite. Basically, Holy Weapon adds 0.1 * (Attack) hits, and Eldritch Weapon adds 0.1 * (Defense) hits -- with a possibility of doing so more than once against multi-counter units. Ignoring the multi-counter situation (which is probably fair; targets where multi-counter kills are likely mostly have low defense), that just means holy weapon is better if the enemy's armor is lower than your attack power.

It's probably most useful to archers.

[Seravy]

Holy Weapon is better if
-Your To-Hit is 0 or lower
and/or
-The enemy has less armor than your attack power

Eldritch weapon is better if
-Your To-Hit is +1 or higher
and/or
-The enemy has more armor than your attack power

The reason why Eldritch Weapon has a maintenance is because Chaos is supposed to be less effective at buffing than Life.

that just means holy weapon is better if the enemy's armor is lower than your attack power.

I agree but I believe the To Hit of the attacker and To Defend of the defender also matters. I wasn't accurate by saying the cutoff is at +0 though, it is not that simple and I also forgot to consider To Defend as well as multi-figures.

[namad]

I think that the efreet and djinn are both fairly balanced. For sure. One thing though. They're a bit too thematically similar I think?
Djinn is basically efreet+windwalking and the windwalking is discounted.

Maybe either make the efreet weaker and cheaper or the djinn more expensive and stronger? Or make them the same rarity? It feels a bit odd for sorcery to pay a very rare slot for what is basically just a good rare spell.
Although maybe sorcery pay a custom wizard creation penalty to gain access to the djinn over the efreet does a good job of reinforcing the fact that summoning is sorcery's weak spot. They can do it well, but not often and not without heavy book commitment. Basically sorcery has no mid-game workhorse summon, no gorgon, or chimera or doom bat.

[Seravy]

I think that the efreet and djinn are both fairly balanced. For sure. One thing though. They're a bit too thematically similar I think?
Djinn is basically efreet+windwalking and the windwalking is discounted.

Maybe either make the efreet weaker and cheaper or the djinn more expensive and stronger? Or make them the same rarity? It feels a bit odd for sorcery to pay a very rare slot for what is basically just a good rare spell.
Although maybe sorcery pay a custom wizard creation penalty to gain access to the djinn over the efreet does a good job of reinforcing the fact that summoning is sorcery's weak spot. They can do it well, but not often and not without heavy book commitment. Basically sorcery has no mid-game workhorse summon, no gorgon, or chimera or doom bat.

Djinn is higher melee and teleports. It casts Sorcery spells which has great defensive buffs and other amazing spells like Mind Storm, but weak direct damage. It can wind walk and is somewhat stronger, but higher rarity. (+1 hit, +1 armor, +1 resist, +2 health)
Efreet is higher ranged and cannot teleport. It casts Chaos spells - strong in direct damage but pretty much no defensive spells and less options overall.

They are similar but I think there are more than enough differences. Also, you are right about the higher rarity being the price of sorcery's weakness in overland summoning, aside from Djinn being overall stronger.
Oh and casting Focus Magic on Djinn enables them casting Haste - another very rare spell. Sure you can do this trick on Efreets too but you need 2 realms for that.

[namad]

Djinn also know mass invisibilty but there is no way they could ever cast it? Is that right?

[Seravy]

Djinn also know mass invisibilty but there is no way they could ever cast it? Is that right?

Correct.

[namad]

Got doom on an item for my hero. Read the tooltip. Looks like Doom calculates damage as if to hit was exactly +2 without variance, but heroes often have +4 or +5 or even +6 to hit. Which will it use? +2? or whichever is higher?