[LURKERS] Mr. Gradgrind's Review

[Mardoc]

When I said 'output', I did mean both production and gnp since they convert back and forth so well. It's not a small number, by any means, just maybe a possibility it extermination is the alternative.

[Aurorarcher]

Err, I think you have a rather serious problem: units on a transport do NOT defend the city they're in. I ran a test match where I gifted a transport with machine guns in an AI city with open borders, then declared war and attacked - the Machine Guns did NOT defend. Guess you'll just have to hope the remaining Infantry can hold against 3 cavs, and that it doesn't get hit by Airships first

Is this kind of a post over the line? I guess if Tohron hadn't posted this Scullla would have made a pretty big mistake possibly - now they were able to fix that. Just making sure I know myself for the future whether I can comment on things that the player should've done (when they still can change stuff)? I thought the general rules say that such suggestions should not be allowed. Am I missing something and this is just fine?

[Cyneheard]

Err, I think you have a rather serious problem: units on a transport do NOT defend the city they're in. I ran a test match where I gifted a transport with machine guns in an AI city with open borders, then declared war and attacked - the Machine Guns did NOT defend. Guess you'll just have to hope the remaining Infantry can hold against 3 cavs, and that it doesn't get hit by Airships first

Is this kind of a post over the line? I guess if Tohron hadn't posted this Scullla would have made a pretty big mistake possibly - now they were able to fix that. Just making sure I know myself for the future whether I can comment on things that the player should've done (when they still can change stuff)? I thought the general rules say that such suggestions should not be allowed. Am I missing something and this is just fine?

It's a technical concern based off of screenshots that were posted in-thread by the team - it crosses the line when you use in any way, shape or form, information from other PB33 threads (and it would be problematic if it was due to someone else flagging the issue - if Dreylin had somehow seen that & posted about it, then it's too late to comment).

[darrelljs]

It crosses my line, but I don't know if there is an official line. IMO, lurkers are allowed to answer technical/mechanics questions asked in thread, but they should not give unsolicited mechanics advice.

Darrell

[Commodore]

Tohron, Dreyote will definitely have a reason to feel cheated by that.

[Bobchillingworth]

Unless I'm missing something he's a dedicated lurker, so no lines crossed. Quite a few games have dedlurkers who essentially act as teammates or advisors.

[Commodore]

Unless I'm missing something he's a dedicated lurker, so no lines crossed. Quite a few games have dedlurkers who essentially act as teammates or advisors.

Unfortunately, multiple posts in here, so...

Absolutely fine for a dedlurker, naturally. But if you're posting in the lurker thread, you ain't ded.

I'm typically a lot more chill about unprompted mechanics comments given to newbies, but Scooter and Sullla have a couple decades of combined Civ4 knowledge.

[Bobchillingworth]

Oh, yeah, way over the line in that case then. Answering mechanics questions is one thing, giving players meaningful advice unbidden is really problematic.

[Gawdzak]

Unless I'm missing something he's a dedicated lurker, so no lines crossed. Quite a few games have dedlurkers who essentially act as teammates or advisors.

Unfortunately, multiple posts in here, so...

Absolutely fine for a dedlurker, naturally. But if you're posting in the lurker thread, you ain't ded.

I'm typically a lot more chill about unprompted mechanics comments given to newbies, but Scooter and Sullla have a couple decades of combined Civ4 knowledge.

Agreed, Tohron's comment is 100% over the line.

I've seen quite a few lurker comments in this game that's been pretty questionable, I think it's best to review acceptable lurker behaviors.

I copied a Krill post, a few years ago, which should be a good starting point.

To all lurkers in this forum, that read more than one spoiler thread.

This thread is here to outline the expectations of how lurkers will behave in this forum, for this game. Ideally, Realms Beyond is a self policing community that is capable of governing itself by consensus, but there are some unbreakable rules that it is not acceptable to knowingly break; nor is ignorance of the community expectations an acceptable excuse.

This thread is posted so that newcomers to the community can quickly understand the community ideology, which is simple: No Spoilers.

Below is a basic list of what lurkers should and should not do. It is by no means an exhaustive list, and is written to illustrate basic ideas of idealised lurker behaviour. Failure to follow the rules may result in a warning via PM (mistakes happen). Repeated failure to follow accepted behaviour will result in the incident being referred to the site admins.

All posts in this forum are read by multiple posters, players and lurkers alike. If anything untoward is posted, it will be brought up, and commented on/

1) Lurkers may respond to civ4 mechanics questions (eg how many turns for a worker to chop a forest? Why didn't my cottage grow? How does the AP work?)

2) Lurkers may congratulate players on achieving a goal (eg Well done on getting that city spot)

2a) However, don't reveal unnecessary information on your comment (eg Well done on getting that city spot - I really thought that Greece was going to get it)

3) Lurkers may participate in option discussions but only after the player has articulated the options and only to the extent of pointing out additional strengths / weaknesses of options that the player might have missed.

3a) Lurkers should NOT suggest additional options that the play might have missed - do not give strategic or tactical advice that isn't known previously
3b) Lurkers should NOT express opinions about various options - ditto

4) Lurkers may express opinions on player agreed rules, but should also point out that rules agreed by the players should be discussed by the players

5) Lurkers may ask a team to explain their opinion about in game situations and developments, but must do this without writing leading questions, or implying information gained from other spoiler threads. It may be wiser to ask how to phrase such a question in the no players thread already, before posting it in a spoiler thread. Basically, be careful.

6) Lurkers may not ask sequence questions -

7) Lurkers may ask for screenshots.

8) Lurkers shall not contact players regarding RBPB2 outside this forum by any means.

[Tohron]

Unless I'm missing something he's a dedicated lurker, so no lines crossed. Quite a few games have dedlurkers who essentially act as teammates or advisors.

Unfortunately, multiple posts in here, so...

Absolutely fine for a dedlurker, naturally. But if you're posting in the lurker thread, you ain't ded.

I'm typically a lot more chill about unprompted mechanics comments given to newbies, but Scooter and Sullla have a couple decades of combined Civ4 knowledge.

Agreed, Tohron's comment is 100% over the line.

I've seen quite a few lurker comments in this game that's been pretty questionable, I think it's best to review acceptable lurker behaviors.

I copied a Krill post, a few years ago, which should be a good starting point.

To all lurkers in this forum, that read more than one spoiler thread.

This thread is here to outline the expectations of how lurkers will behave in this forum, for this game. Ideally, Realms Beyond is a self policing community that is capable of governing itself by consensus, but there are some unbreakable rules that it is not acceptable to knowingly break; nor is ignorance of the community expectations an acceptable excuse.

This thread is posted so that newcomers to the community can quickly understand the community ideology, which is simple: No Spoilers.

Below is a basic list of what lurkers should and should not do. It is by no means an exhaustive list, and is written to illustrate basic ideas of idealised lurker behaviour. Failure to follow the rules may result in a warning via PM (mistakes happen). Repeated failure to follow accepted behaviour will result in the incident being referred to the site admins.

All posts in this forum are read by multiple posters, players and lurkers alike. If anything untoward is posted, it will be brought up, and commented on/

1) Lurkers may respond to civ4 mechanics questions (eg how many turns for a worker to chop a forest? Why didn't my cottage grow? How does the AP work?)

2) Lurkers may congratulate players on achieving a goal (eg Well done on getting that city spot)

2a) However, don't reveal unnecessary information on your comment (eg Well done on getting that city spot - I really thought that Greece was going to get it)

3) Lurkers may participate in option discussions but only after the player has articulated the options and only to the extent of pointing out additional strengths / weaknesses of options that the player might have missed.

3a) Lurkers should NOT suggest additional options that the play might have missed - do not give strategic or tactical advice that isn't known previously
3b) Lurkers should NOT express opinions about various options - ditto

4) Lurkers may express opinions on player agreed rules, but should also point out that rules agreed by the players should be discussed by the players

5) Lurkers may ask a team to explain their opinion about in game situations and developments, but must do this without writing leading questions, or implying information gained from other spoiler threads. It may be wiser to ask how to phrase such a question in the no players thread already, before posting it in a spoiler thread. Basically, be careful.

6) Lurkers may not ask sequence questions -

7) Lurkers may ask for screenshots.

8) Lurkers shall not contact players regarding RBPB2 outside this forum by any means.

Guess I must have missed Rule #3

My own reasoning was that I was only acting on info in Scooter's thread and my own sims, so I didn't see a problem.

Also, I thought it makes the game more enjoyable when fights are decided by interesting strategic & tactical decisions, rather than a dumb oversight due to a player misunderstanding the rules.

Would it help if we all made a point to correct any mechanical misunderstandings by Dreylin, REM, or any other player from now on? Personally, I think it would improve the quality of the game.

EDIT: On further thought, I suppose "mechanical misunderstanding" might be a little more vague then on first glance: Dreylin/OT4E were probably aware on an abstract level that Scooter had Drydocks+Vassalage+Theocracy+Pentagon, but didn't really think through the implications. That's a little different than "Units that attacked from a transport in a city can't defend the city", though I can see how the line can be a little blurry - both ultimately fall into the "oversight" category, and could have been corrected by a dedlurker. But then, extrapolate this logic to the furthest extent, and you could say that the teams have an unfair advantage over the single players, since they have greater ability to catch mistakes. Thoughts?