[LURKERS] Mr. Gradgrind's Review

[SadGit]

By quality of the game you speak as a lurker, as someone wanting to be entertained. That is the biggest trap a lurker can fall into. The games are not played for our entertainment, but for the players alone. Ours is just a bonus.

[Mardoc]

Also, I thought it makes the game more enjoyable when fights are decided by interesting strategic & tactical decisions, rather than a dumb oversight due to a player misunderstanding the rules.

Well, fundamentally it comes down to the philosophy that the game is for the players, not the lurkers. We have more fun when it's higher quality play - but at some point it slips to being our show instead of the players' game. Not all at once, not immediately - but in a strategy game, you almost don't have a choice to take the suboptimal path once the better approach is pointed out to you. Yet, following directions isn't nearly as fun as figuring out the answer. Think of the difference between solving a puzzle and reading the solution.

Do I think your comment breaks the game? Nope. But it's a step in that direction.

Would it help if we all made a point to correct any mechanical misunderstandings by Dreylin, REM, or any other player from now on? Personally, I think it would improve the quality of the game.

No, that would compound the problem, not solve it - not even if you could perfectly judge the balance of your suggestions, it's still becoming more about you and less about the players. Can't unspill the milk, but you shouldn't spill more to try to be fair.

[Jabah]

It is funny that attacking from a boat (inside the city without unloading first) doesn't count as an amphibious attack... (in which case Scooter would have realised and unload first).

[Tohron]

Another thing I'm wondering about - is there a difference in kind between a post of encouragement and a mechanical correction like mine?

A post of encouragement seeks to influence the game by encouraging a player to not give up and keep looking for opportunities.
A mechanical correction seeks to influence the game by helping a player avoid an embarrassing mistake.

The only difference I'm seeing is that the second kind of post is a lot more likely to have a significant effect on the game.

Just trying to understand the philosophy here so I (and potentially other people) can avoid the same mistakes in the future.

[Bobchillingworth]

The thing is, you weren't correcting a game mechanics issue which Scooter & Sulla were already aware of. If they were asking something like "how much maintenance will spreading a corporation to X city cost?", then you'd be fine to post the applicable formulas. What you did though was volunteer tactical advice which wasn't in response to a mechanics query- you directly influenced the game to the benefit of a particular team, which is a serious no-no for a lurker. Looking back at your recent posts, you've also been offering geopolitical advice about other player's likely moves which is out-of-bounds for someone with global spoiler knowledge.


That you want to lurk a more entertaining game is completely irrelevant. If you were spectating a chess tournament you wouldn't scream advice at a player whose unforced error might end a game prematurely. This is no different. Players invest dozens of hours in these games- you have no right to spoil it for them.


I would suggest just hanging back and lurking silently from this point on.

[Gaspar]

I mean, there's not really a need for a huge lurker rule of conduct if you just follow this sort of rule:

1. If you want to participate in the game in anyway, you are a dedlurker, you may only read one thread and you can post whatever the heck you want.

2. If not 1, your posts in specific player thread shoulds basically be re-read before you hit post with the following question in mind "Will this impact the game in any non-morale based way?" If the answer is yes, Ctrl-X, click on this thread, post it in here or post it nowhere.

As stated by several others above, the difference in you having a good time lurking and the players having a good time playing is that you spent 10 minutes reading a forum post and these players put well into the hundreds of hours of time into the game. That we protect that investment is important, that you or I have fun lurking is irrelevant.

Anyway, not piling on but there's really no debate here and I expect Dreylin would be pretty livid if he knew that just happened, I know I would be.

[Tohron]

1. If you want to participate in the game in anyway, you are a dedlurker, you may only read one thread and you can post whatever the heck you want.

So would Dreylin be less angry if it had been someone dedlurkering Scooter's thread who had made the mechanics correction that reminded Scooter to unload his units? Seems to me like he has equal reason to be mad either way.

[Tyrmith]

I think the thinking is that if you are ded-lurking you are essentially part of the team- theoretically what Sullla is, otherwise you're just bloodthirsty audience.

[GermanJoey]

That comment is so over the line, and looks like it makes a huge difference to Dreylin... what's worse is that there's no possible way they don't know the or misunderstand the mechanic, as Scooter, at the very least, has played in games where big fleets have been wiped by land troops in this exact way. (PB13 comes to mind) He probably just didn't think about it when he played the turn.

Tohron, you should just stop posting in their thread if you don't understand what is OK and what is not.

[Zalson]

welp this will only be an issue if Dreylin attacks...

Edit: sanctimonious comment removed.