[LURKERS] Mr. Gradgrind's Review

[Mardoc]

Here's the real problem with airships: there's no way to counter them

I disagree with Sullla here. The most obvious straightforward counter to airships is numbers and concentration. The second counter is to have better miltech in another style. If you give two teams each equal hammers worth of units, and equal amounts of tech, I'm not at all convinced the airship team wins. If Dreylin had Physics while Scooter had Assembly Line, and Dreylin had 35 Rifles/15 Airships to Scooter's 50 Infantry - I think I like Scooter's position better. Or even just navies: 20 Frigates + 20 Airships does not actually beat 40 Frigates, let alone 20 Frigates + 20 Ironclads! Who cares if you take some damage on your units, with no chance of damaging the airships? You still have plenty of healthy units which can actually kill the opposing army and take their cities!

On top, it's tricky to concentrate airships densely enough to make a noticable difference; 4/city is a real limit.

Scoollla's real problem in this war is that they don't have either equal hammers or equal tech. That would have been a problem for them regardless of which tech Dreylin took instead of Physics, though. If Dreylin had Railroad, then their infantry would be attacking into Machine Guns which could redeploy at 10 tiles/turn. If Dreylin had Steel, then he could match Scooter's ships at sea and have cannons for counterattacks. Or the simplest one: if Dreylin had Assembly Line 5 turns earlier, so he could defend his cities with Infantry instead of Rifles...

I do admit that Airships make a very good 'win more' unit. If you've got enough of an army or navy to win or tie, adding in airships will reduce your casualties.

[Commodore]

Agreed on the airships being okay, but I'm biased too; Airships are stylish as hell.

[Fluffball]

As I said on April 4th, I think the real problem is that airships are weird enough that Scooter and Sulla didn't recognize how they fit into this game. As I said on the 4th

I think airships are being drastically understimated as well.

I don't even own the expansions and I can see I'd definitely want them. If I may quote Santiago from Alpha Centauri:

"Air power rests at the apex of the first triad of victory, for it combines Mobility, Flexibility, and Initiative."

[DMOC]

I didn't recognize how airships would fit in this game either; I underestimated their impact given how Dreylin/OT4E have used them so effectively. This is in part due to me coming from a single player background (where we rarely use airships at all) but it's also because this game is just unique in the way it's set up (industrial era, etc.).

I also have a mechanics question. In these pitboss games, when you log in and see a diplomacy window (e.g., offering peace), is there a way for you to exit that window, analyze the map (to see if things look good, check which city the opponent captured, etc.) and then go back to that diplomacy window and accept the peace?

Edit: seems like according to scooter's thread, the answer to my question above is no. Huh, so I sometimes wonder, what happens when players see that others offer peace, then exit, check the game, and re-offer peace. But then the other player does the same thing, and they keep having a cycle of canceling/reoffering peace.

[Old Harry]

If you have a large enough monitor you can click on the mini map to pan it around and see through or around the diplo window, or you can click on the advisor buttons to see what military units are visible or how international relations stand.

[ipecac]

If your monitor isn't big enough you can hit Fn-F5 or whatever to check the various screens, the most useful being the military advisor. But it's not foolproof, IIRC entering individual city view through the Domestic Advisor (F1) cancels the peace trade offer or something.

[BRickAstley]

So who's going to win now? It feels like whoever plays the geopolitical landmine game the best between the big 3.

[Cyneheard]

So who's going to win now? It feels like whoever plays the geopolitical landmine game the best between the big 3.

I agree, but I think REM just needs to Not Lose the political game now.

And long-term, if it's close, Scullla may be able to pull of a Commando factory and that could win them the game - commando units conducting asymmetric warfare and all that. But this map may not be the most conducive to that game plan.

Dreylin lost the political game over the last 10 turns, but he's clearly still in it - and didn't take a huge hit either.

I do like how this is playing out - wars fought over incremental advantage because no one can drop decisive blows on the other big players. But I don't think other three players will live terribly long.

[Commodore]

REM is definitely winning now; he's particularly advantaged by Sculla not even beginning to contemplate wheeling around and joining with Dreyote to dogpile the new #1, now even #1ier. But a lot of play left.

[Fluffball]

REM is definitely winning now; he's particularly advantaged by Sculla not even beginning to contemplate wheeling around and joining with Dreyote to dogpile the new #1, now even #1ier. But a lot of play left.

I think you're reading too much into that. Right now, they other two are fighting to a stalemate and Scooter and Sulla don't see anything else that we know (like REM being ready for peace even before they signed it.) They're doing the right thing by teching to combustion and industrialism in the few peace turns they have. After that is over, you can be sure they will looking to slow REM.

REM has a huge advantage in land. Not just the minor advantage at the moment, but also because he has extremely easy access to all 3 remaining minor players. IF BGN goes down, expect REM to take most and Dreylin to get some. If Pindicator goes down, expect REM and Scooter to mostly split it. And DZ has already given REM a couple cities, with the possibility of one more nice prize.

Dreylin and Scooter need to really Blitzkrieg their "vassals" with ships/tanks, taking them out almost in a single turn to prevent REM from getting too much of the spoils. Without looking at the map I'm not even sure that's possible for Dreylin, since REM has such a large border with BGN.

The land advantage plus the SoL multiplying that makes me think REM is now solidly entrenched as the favorite.

Flight is now the tech to watch out for, since all 3 will have combustion shortly.