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(July 6th, 2016, 02:49)Jkaen Wrote: (July 5th, 2016, 21:43)Lewwyn Wrote: My anonymous discard was a mafia goon. Same as Meiz apparently. Welcome back to Werewolf Meiz!
Lewwyn, how recently have you played a werewolf?
Don't remember, maybe 4-5 games? It was before the long break.
“The wind went mute and the trees in the forest stood still. It was time for the last tale.”
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(July 6th, 2016, 02:55)Jkaen Wrote: (July 6th, 2016, 02:26)Prometheus1998_ Wrote: Thus, from a strategic standpoint, a backup doctor is more valuable to town than any other role except doctor. So, Fenn has my vote.
Are you suggesting that backup doctor is better than say a cop?
That was not my intention when I made that statement, however, I do actually view a backup doctor as being a bigger asset in town's favor than a cop. A cop can root out scum, yes. However, a doctor can prevent a night kill, which can be just as powerful, if not more. A cop has to breadcrumb their results and hope someone is paying attention to get anything done, or just outright claim cop and hope town believes him or her. A doctor has the potential to directly delay lylo. When the doctor dies, the backup doctor takes over. Scum then has to kill two pepole to take away town's protector instead if one.
However, my comment was actually referring to the specific scenario where one of three role choices is backup doctor. From a strategic perspective, the only role I would consider more powerful in that situation is an actual doctor, for the reasons above.
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(July 5th, 2016, 22:17)Dp101 Wrote: Reviewing the day, I have to say that AdrienIer's questioning of me seems opportunistic and slightly telling as to his actual motives. From his responses it sounds like he enjoys risk, and isn't deliberately picking scum the most risky play of all? Also, my anonymous discard was yet another Hider, apparently the RNG wants someone to play them. I didn't because the role requires a high degree of certainty in one's reads, and as a new player I feel I would just end up hiding behind someone random and then dying.
What do you mean by opportunistic questioning ? You asked me why I thought mafia lover was good, I answered, you said you were a beginner and didn't want to start with a difficult role I said ok. You were questioning me as much as I was questioning you.
I also read your interaction with Lewwyn as scummy, but after last game (where Winston and Psi got under the fire for not having the same style as RB people) I'm willing to give you a pass on that today. I still feel bad for being mean to the newbies last time
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(July 6th, 2016, 02:26)Prometheus1998_ Wrote: Taking anonymous and revealed discards together, Hider has shown up three times. For a role that has a one in 54 chance of being drawn, that seems mildly suspicious to me. Not enough to cast a vote over it, though.
Well two of those discards are provably true, so unlikely or no, that's statistics for you.
We can copy hider's stats from the setup thread:
Quote:Town Hider
You are a Town Hider.
Abilities
During the Day, you may vote for whomever you want lynched.
Hider: During the Night, you may PM me the name of another player. You will "hide" behind that player, making you immune to any actions that target you. However, if you hide behind a non-Town-aligned player, you will die.
Win Condition
You win when all threats to the Town are eliminated and at least one Town-aligned player is still alive, or nothing can prevent the same.
Hider may be frustrating, but I disagree strongly with Jkaen that it is a weak role. When I said I would dump it in favour of something of comparative power, I was comparing it to things like tracker, watcher, vigilante.
Night 1, hide behind someone quiet who seems fairly town-leany and you will probably clear them. Night 2, hide behind someone suspicious, announce it at deadline, and you will probably have cleared 2 people or cleared 1 and found a scum. That's just an example, but seems a plausible result.
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As for Herr Doktoring, I agree that it might be the strongest role in a vaccuum. However it's not that likely to pay off until the mid-late game, and whatever team I play, I traditionally don't make it that far. Thining specifically about how far I could expect to get in this game, there are several roles I would place above it.
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@Jkaen: Is the way Gazglum descibes the Hider the way Jabbz told you it would work?
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(July 6th, 2016, 03:29)Gazglum Wrote: (July 6th, 2016, 02:26)Prometheus1998_ Wrote: Taking anonymous and revealed discards together, Hider has shown up three times. For a role that has a one in 54 chance of being drawn, that seems mildly suspicious to me. Not enough to cast a vote over it, though.
Well two of those discards are provably true, so unlikely or no, that's statistics for you.
We can copy hider's stats from the setup thread:
Quote:Town Hider
You are a Town Hider.
Abilities
During the Day, you may vote for whomever you want lynched.
Hider: During the Night, you may PM me the name of another player. You will "hide" behind that player, making you immune to any actions that target you. However, if you hide behind a non-Town-aligned player, you will die.
Win Condition
You win when all threats to the Town are eliminated and at least one Town-aligned player is still alive, or nothing can prevent the same.
Hider may be frustrating, but I disagree strongly with Jkaen that it is a weak role. When I said I would dump it in favour of something of comparative power, I was comparing it to things like tracker, watcher, vigilante.
Night 1, hide behind someone quiet who seems fairly town-leany and you will probably clear them. Night 2, hide behind someone suspicious, announce it at deadline, and you will probably have cleared 2 people or cleared 1 and found a scum. That's just an example, but seems a plausible result.
That's not quite the rules that I got in the PM, its missing 1 important factor - I was told if the person I am hiding behind dies, then I die too.
The role is only of any use if you declare your ability and state who you are going to hide behind.
If you hide behind scum you have probably done a 1:1 trade which is ok, if you hide behind town they kill both the person you hide behind and you to get 2 kills in the single night.
You could request that the person you are hiding behind is doctored too, but then you start tying up a bunch of power roles in order to try to make yours work.
Therefore the role sucks
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(July 6th, 2016, 03:42)Rowain Wrote: @Jkaen: Is the way Gazglum descibes the Hider the way Jabbz told you it would work?
See above post
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@Jabbz, I think you should double check your RNG just in case it's malfunctioning 
(July 5th, 2016, 17:02)Gazglum Wrote: If the pool is totally random for each of us, then I guess there is no harm in saying that I also discarded 1-Shot Vigilante. Not a popular role, it seems. We're all a bit gun-shy after the saloon? What were your feelings about that role, Meiz?
Speaking from personal experience, even in the perfect scenario of shooting a scum, you'll just be lynched later for "being the SK".
(July 5th, 2016, 21:43)Lewwyn Wrote: So I guess people are claiming their anonymous discards? I don't know that it helps, but I do agree it gives us something to talk about. My anonymous discard was a mafia goon. Same as Meiz apparently. Welcome back to Werewolf Meiz!
Thanks for the warm welcome! But mafia goon as 3rd pick? Where's Lewwyn and what have you done to him?
(July 5th, 2016, 22:17)Dp101 Wrote: Reviewing the day, I have to say that AdrienIer's questioning of me seems opportunistic and slightly telling as to his actual motives. From his responses it sounds like he enjoys risk, and isn't deliberately picking scum the most risky play of all?
Agreed with above, it seems like AdrienIer would prefer playing scum above anything else.
Other than that, I also agree with Prometheus's view on discarded doctors. Scum-gazglum would know Doctor is shown as his discard, but he could perhaps justify that by taking mafia godfather. If he is town, scum are well aware that his power is stronger, which makes him high priority as the nigh kill. For that reason I'll go with Fenn. Backup doctor is not as incriminating as a discard, but from a pick perspective it's almost equivalent to a full doctor. I also find Fenn very good with words and can see him wanting to try playing scum.
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(July 6th, 2016, 03:43)Jkaen Wrote: The role is only of any use if you declare your ability and state who you are going to hide behind.
If you hide behind scum you have probably done a 1:1 trade which is ok, if you hide behind town they kill both the person you hide behind and you to get 2 kills in the single night.
Of course you would only announce your target at the last second before night ends so that scum can't change target. If you chose right (not behind nk-target) you either clear a villager or out a scum which is both very powerfull.
But all in all I can see why you would stay away from this role.
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