WW #43 - The Asha'man

[AdrienIer]

Two people have wondered whether you were deliberately misunderstanding them. Like scum trying to twist their words to make them look bad. It makes me wonder if they were right. But that's not enough to get me to vote for you yet.

But Dp101 saying that he felt Lewwyn was deliberately misunderstanding him deserves to be put in Lewwyn's record for later consideration.

I do have a problem with your reasoning for putting Lewwyn in your scummy-list. Had you said: "Lewwyn was deliberatly misunderstanding people here and here and this is scummy" I would be ok with it. But you are using "XY has said Lewwyn misunderstood him" and that is plain simply bad. It is hiding behind other people to mark one as scummy.

Your votes have been in a similar vein from "I feel uneasy about Psilly". (He could well be your scumbuddie and you were testing waters for later distancing) to "Good case Gazglum" without even mentioning Meiz' answer and finally "Meiz looks rather skish " which is funny as the good case from Gazglum was done with Meiz as scum.

AdrienIer

Two people have said Lewwyn misunderstood them, and I can see why they would think that. I'm not going as far as saying that he deliberately misunderstood them, that would need more certainty than I have about the issue.

I moved away from Psilly because it seemed better to take a look at other people. He's still probably my n°1 choice for tonight, and if the deadline was in 20mn I'd vote for him right now. Gazglum's case is not done with Meiz as scum. He never says Meiz is scum explicitly. And everything Gazglum said also works with SK-Meiz.

[Rowain]

Two people have said Lewwyn misunderstood them, and I can see why they would think that. I'm not going as far as saying that he deliberately misunderstood them, that would need more certainty than I have about the issue.

This is exactly the wavering I have a problem with. You listed Lewwyn in your "I would vote for him"-list but the reason you give is a "Others have claimed he misunderstood them" nothing of your own no case of your own.

Gazglum's case is not done with Meiz as scum. He never says Meiz is scum explicitly. And everything Gazglum said also works with SK-Meiz.

Again it is Gazglums case not yours. No opinion of your own?

For me it looks like you don't want to get your hands dirty.

[Gazglum]

This is typical, you spend a whole game failing to get people to lynch Adrien, and then suddenly everybody wants to do it at once.

Adrien, I don't think Meiz is very likely to be a serial killer, if it helps. How do you feel about his response to me?

[Rowain]

As my time is running short.

My role is Paranoid Gun owner.


My vote stays on Adrien. For future references I do agree that Psilly looks fishy as hell. So far I'm also not impressed by Prometheus and Dp101.

[Fenn]

@Rowain, I haven't got any town vibes from Fenn's posts which is why I've keptd my vote on him. The only thing that makes me want to move is that he claims he would rank scum as his last pick for it being too stressful. Something I'd just have to take his word on. btw. Fenn didn't you consider asking Jabbz how backup doctor works if no doctor is chosen for the game?

I didn't, no - just assumed that a Backup Doc without any Docs around is just a VT with a fancy name. Even if that was the way it worked and I knew of it I'd probably still have put it second.

Lewwyn sounds more towny to me lately. Points for his case against Psillycyber which goes along the lines I was thinking. Also, I feel like his maths mistake wouldn't have happened if he was scum.

Dunno about novice. Feels like he's been skating by since the Psilly wagon picked up speed. Perhaps that's uncharitable.

This comment from Adrien about Meiz I don't like. It's as if he's basing his suspicion of Meiz off of him not specifically denying wanting to play SK. That's a flimsy meta argument if I ever saw one. And his run of justifying his stances with other people's reaction to Lewwyn and Gaz's case on Meiz is bizarre behaviour for a town. Don't you want to make your own opinions known?

At this point Psilly is the scummiest in my eyes, and my vote will stay on him, but Dp101's explanation for putting Mafia Lover 2nd and Hider 3rd doesn't sit well with me. Saying that he didn't think about the order at all is hard to believe. Plus even if Hider is a very weak role, you don't have to use it. Certainly not worse than vanilla, which is how he describes Mafia Lover.

[Lewwyn]

Two people have wondered whether you were deliberately misunderstanding them. Like scum trying to twist their words to make them look bad. It makes me wonder if they were right. But that's not enough to get me to vote for you yet.

This is crazy. Lynch by proxy basically. You are willing to vote for me because someone else says they think I was deliberately misunderstanding them, but you don't presume to have an opinion on it? You'll just take it at their word? It reeks of let's just lynch anyone that isn't me.

Your list of who you'd be willing to lynch includes DP who you apparently are willing to lynch, but you also think his comment about me makes me lynchable. What? It's like you are saying you don't trust me because someone else you don't trust said something about not trusting me.

I'm seriously torn here because between you and psi I'm having a hard time deciding who is scummier.

[Psillycyber]

Well, looking at the interactions since my last vote Psillycyber's arguments against Lewwyn seem to be coming out of thin air so I think I'll vote for him. He looks like scum trying to make a case out of nothing to try and look active, but it comes off as weak and desperate.

Agree with this, even if I'm not convinced we have the right guy.

But Psilly's counterattacks are not very compelling.

Edit: Yes, the tunneling angle is a little off.

I fail to see how I've been tunneling when I've been making good points against others too.

I don't see Psilly as tunneling on Lewwyn, just making a weak case on him. It would have to be made with more conviction to qualify as tunneling. -1 town point to Prometheus for lack of synchronicity.

Tunneling may have been the wrong word to use. He's very focused on Lewwyn, to the point where he seems unable to see other possibilities. Though, as I said in my earlier post, it could also be that he is trying to force a mislynch.

I do agree, though, that it is a very weak case.

Well, the case is not ironclad, but what better do we have? (I'm open to other suggestions).

Also, something I'm getting tired of: first Lewwyn criticizes me for not trying hard enough to find scum, and then others criticize me for reaching too far on my observations of Lewwyn and trying too hard. Guess what: all we have on Day 1 is little hints. I'm going off of what I have. This getting pinged back and forth by different people and feeling that I just can't do right by people is giving me deja vu from last game.

Good morning team.

Meiz.

Meiz has 4 posts, and half of them are little jokes. His one substantial post I don't like:

@Jabbz, I think you should double check your RNG just in case it's malfunctioning

If the pool is totally random for each of us, then I guess there is no harm in saying that I also discarded 1-Shot Vigilante. Not a popular role, it seems. We're all a bit gun-shy after the saloon? What were your feelings about that role, Meiz?

Speaking from personal experience, even in the perfect scenario of shooting a scum, you'll just be lynched later for "being the SK".

So I guess people are claiming their anonymous discards? I don't know that it helps, but I do agree it gives us something to talk about. My anonymous discard was a mafia goon. Same as Meiz apparently. Welcome back to Werewolf Meiz!

Thanks for the warm welcome! But mafia goon as 3rd pick? Where's Lewwyn and what have you done to him?

Reviewing the day, I have to say that AdrienIer's questioning of me seems opportunistic and slightly telling as to his actual motives. From his responses it sounds like he enjoys risk, and isn't deliberately picking scum the most risky play of all?

Agreed with above, it seems like AdrienIer would prefer playing scum above anything else.

Other than that, I also agree with Prometheus's view on discarded doctors. Scum-gazglum would know Doctor is shown as his discard, but he could perhaps justify that by taking mafia godfather. If he is town, scum are well aware that his power is stronger, which makes him high priority as the nigh kill. For that reason I'll go with Fenn. Backup doctor is not as incriminating as a discard, but from a pick perspective it's almost equivalent to a full doctor. I also find Fenn very good with words and can see him wanting to try playing scum.

Does this mean he is suspicious of Lewwyn? I guess not, so it's just timewasting. He thinsk Adrien would enjoy playing scum, does that mean Adrien IS scum? He doesn't say.

I also don't like his comment on me. I would know doctor would show, but it would be worth it to be a mafia godfather? WHy pick that one out of the air, its a way of tarnishing me by being randomly specific. And if I wanted to be a mafia godfather, why would I discard the doctor PUBLICLY? It makes no sense, this whole post is lacking logic and opinion.

J'accuse!

I do see a lot of hiding behind others' opinions coming from Meiz, and a lack of taking a stand on any issue when his arguments imply that he should do so (such as AdrienIer as scum). Good lead, Gazglum!

And to those of you saying that this is the sort of case that I should have been making (now I see others are using the "Y U NO LIKE GAZ?!" card): well, boo-de-frickin'-hoo, I'm not omniscient, so sue me. I don't see everything. Gazglum did a good job of reading between the lines here to pick up on these vibes, and maybe my scumdar just isn't that good. But now that Gazglum has gotten my attention onto Meiz, let's see what Meiz had to say in his defense following up:

Morning to you too.

I certainly admit I haven't had much to add so far to the game. I've mostly been following along with the discussion and trying to get a read on people's tone. So far I'd say Rowain reads very confident town-himself. Lewwyn has been prodding people for discussion and I haven't yet seen malice in it. Gazglum leans town for meta reasons (at the end of this post). Zak & novice haven't played a bad game either so far.

On Psilly I agree with the view that he is making his case on Lewwyn bigger than it should be for day 1. I'd also consider voting Jkaen just because he is clearly not against playing scum and would probably like to replicate his successful mafia win.

@Rowain, I haven't got any town vibes from Fenn's posts which is why I've keptd my vote on him. The only thing that makes me want to move is that he claims he would rank scum as his last pick for it being too stressful. Something I'd just have to take his word on. btw. Fenn didn't you consider asking Jabbz how backup doctor works if no doctor is chosen for the game?

Does this mean he is suspicious of Lewwyn? I guess not, so it's just timewasting. He thinsk Adrien would enjoy playing scum, does that mean Adrien IS scum? He doesn't say.

I also don't like his comment on me. I would know doctor would show, but it would be worth it to be a mafia godfather? WHy pick that one out of the air, its a way of tarnishing me by being randomly specific. And if I wanted to be a mafia godfather, why would I discard the doctor PUBLICLY? It makes no sense, this whole post is lacking logic and opinion.

J'accuse!

Comment on Lewwyn might be time wasting but it's just there to acknowledge his welcome. On Adrien, let's just say that his preference on bold entertainment play would make me less hesitant to vote for him in this setup.

As godfather you'd at least have the option of getting scanned as innocent. Otherwise it would be bad scenario for scum, since you'd need to explain not getting night killed as town who has discarded doctor. I don't think it makes much sense, which is why I'm leaning town for you as well.

Hahahaha...you certainly are viewing Lewwyn through rose-tinted glasses if you think everything he has been saying just comes across as perfectly innocent prodding of discussion with nothing defensive about it whatsoever. I wouldn't say that Lewwyn has displayed "malice," but defensiveness, yes.

Meiz's considerations for voting Jkaen are thin gruel. He won as scum once before, so he would like to try it again? How long ago was that? Who here hasn't won as scum? Why would this factor single-out Jkaen. Jkaen has been seeming towny to me so far, so the fact that the closest Meiz comes to taking a stand is against someone I feel pretty strongly is town...well, that's not good for Meiz.

@Rowain, I haven't got any town vibes from Fenn's posts which is why I've keptd my vote on him.

Bing bing bing bing! My scumdar is beeping red here. So...Fenn is guilty of the paltry offense of a lack of town vibes, and therefore you are voting for him? What? That's your standard? Are there not any number of others who would fulfill that low standard? Hey, at the very least, why not vote for me? Surely there's been more of a case made against me than Fenn by now. The only reason to stick with the Fenn vote would be to not attract attention at this point when my alignment flips at lynch, if I get lynched.

This whole post from Meiz has the tone of someone trying to backpedal and say, "See? I'm contributing, I'm seriously addressing each player, I swear!" but then not really saying much, and then sticking with a vote that makes almost zero sense.

In all, I would be okay with lynching any of the following today:
*Lewwyn
*AdrienIer
*Meiz

I should be around near the lynch deadline, so I'll switch strategically onto whichever of these three seem the likeliest to hang.

[Lewwyn]

Also, something I'm getting tired of: first Lewwyn criticizes me for not trying hard enough to find scum, and then others criticize me for reaching too far on my observations of Lewwyn and trying too hard. Guess what: all we have on Day 1 is little hints. I'm going off of what I have. This getting pinged back and forth by different people and feeling that I just can't do right by people is giving me deja vu from last game.

What? Go back and look. I did not criticize you for not trying hard enough to find scum. Don't play the victim with me.

I should be around near the lynch deadline, so I'll switch strategically onto whichever of these three seem the likeliest to hang.

Inspires great confidence.

[Psillycyber]

Re: Gazglum. I haven't dropped my suspicions of you "like a hot potato." I am still on wait-and-see mode on you. I thought your explanation of your doctor discard was fine, but the truth is, we can't just take people's word on their role rankings and use that to flat-out clear them. That's exactly what I was warning about before ("don't assume we will be able to tell much from talk about the anonymous discards"), even though others seem to have taken Gazglum's word about his doctor explanation to be worth much more than I would claim is justified.

The thing is, a meta-consideration like someone's role discards is a fine reason for voting someone at the beginning of day 1, but responses and other meatier stuff quickly overwhelm the significance of a meta-consideration like a role discard, so unless that meta-consideration and the initial pressure from that is followed-up on by more suspicious stuff coming from that player, it makes sense to move on to where you have actual leads from how people have acted. Gazglum's response to the pressure on him for discarding doctor was fine (although it doesn't automatically 100% clear him), and so he didn't come under any additional suspicion from me, and Lewwyn was actually acting weird, so the Lewwyn case took priority.

[Psillycyber]

Also, something I'm getting tired of: first Lewwyn criticizes me for not trying hard enough to find scum, and then others criticize me for reaching too far on my observations of Lewwyn and trying too hard. Guess what: all we have on Day 1 is little hints. I'm going off of what I have. This getting pinged back and forth by different people and feeling that I just can't do right by people is giving me deja vu from last game.

What? Go back and look. I did not criticize you for not trying hard enough to find scum. Don't play the victim with me.

The charitable assumption? lol You realize that you can't just sit and wait for a wolf to make a mistake. You actually have to ask pointed questions and put a little pressure on people?

What do you call this?