WW #43 - The Asha'man

[Gazglum]

This game has been an absolute classic so far. I'm glad we didn't start over. I also feel like Town is in really good shape here. With the discard info + knowing exactly which alignments were on the block Day 1, we have a huge amount of data to mine.

Then there is Jkaen, now almost confirmed town in my eyes. Adrien could have been alone as a mason, but there is no way scum could have known that, so making a fake-claim at that point would be like playing russian roulette with three bullets. Their behaviour Day 1 also seems to bear out the story.

Knowing we had masons and a roleblocker, I am now dismissing any thought that scum might have had only 2 members. I think they must have 3 to compete against this, and so I am looking for 3 scum out of:

Prometheus
DP101
Meiz
Fenn
Lewwyn
Rowain
Zak

And of those, I have a pretty hard meta-town + instinctive town lean on Zak. So the odds are not bad today.

[Gazglum]

Getting onto the discards, we now have a full set:

DP101 - Mafia lover - Hider[/Table]
Fenn - Backup doctor - Enabler
Gazglum - Doctor - One shot vig
Jkaen - CLAIMS: Mason - Hider - Vanilla Townie
Lewwyn - Vanilla town - Mafia Goon
Meiz - One shot vig - Mafia Goon
Novice - Mafia godfather - Vanilla town
Prometheus - Vanilla town - Lover
Rowain - CLAIMED: Paranoid Gun Owner - Vanilla town - One shot governor
Zakalwe - One shot governor - Mafia Doctor

[Gazglum]

And my gut-take on some of those (didnt' do this before for time reasons + lacking full info for a while)

DP101
I definitely believe that DP101 wouldn't want to play Mafia Lover on his first game. On the other hand I can believe he wouldn't want to play hider either, even if he did get it. So I can see DP101 having taken a better Mafia role if the only Town role on offer was hider (an expert-level and overly stressful power role).

FENN
I don't even understand what Enabler does when I read it. Fenn is a clever guy, he has a few games under his belt, never had a proper mafia game, and backup doctor has a chance of not ever working. I can see him reaching for mafia if it was offered here.

GAZGLUM


JKAEN
I believe this.

LEWWYN
Faced with these two picks, I think Lewwyn would choose a power role from either team. Then there is also the chance he is lying about the 2nd discard. Setting aside his play, which feels neutral-ish to me, these discards sent slight alarm bells ringing.

MEIZ
These discards seem plausible, I have no strong feelings on them.

NOVICE
Mild alarm bells for Novice too. Publicly discarding the Godfather in favour of another mafia role is a neat piece of WIFOM cleverness. On the other hand, if he really didn't mind that much, it would make sense to rank godfather 2nd so he would get to play it if his first choice didn't pan out.

PROMETHEUS
Both these roles are things you would chuck away, especially as a first timer. So that is a null tell. Stepping outside the gamebox a bit - Prometheus is hanging around the Games Master in real life. This means he has the potential to get out-of-game knowledge from dropped hints, jokes, or Jabbzian muscle twitches. Given that situatation, there would be very good reasons for fairness (and discussion fun with his dad) for Prometheus to have picked mafia, if it was offered. If I was in his position, I would have done that. Lover is also a good invented 2nd discard.

ROWAIN
As I said, Paranoid Gun Owner is a great claim to open on as a Brickian-style Gambit.

Rowain, when you first got dealt this hand, you said you ordered it in reverse. Can you go through your thought process again - why was your initial instinct that Paranoid Gun Owner is so much worse than anything else? And then why change your mind?

Rowain 'forgetting' to reorder it PGO > Governor > Vanilla is sloppy. Rowain is very rarely sloppy. The more I think about it, the more I don't like this.

ZAKALWE
He was offered a goodish town role, and dropped it. I don't believe Zak does that, except for maybe serial killer? But these discards seem plausible to me.

[Gazglum]

I was hoping to leave this question until Novice had hopefully posted his 3rd choice, but I don't know when that may be and I am starting to get near the end of my activity window for the day.

Is everybody claiming that they got their 1st choice pick?

I don't think we really responded to this. I did. Did anyone not?

[Rowain]

Rowain, when you first got dealt this hand, you said you ordered it in reverse. Can you go through your thought process again - why was your initial instinct that Paranoid Gun Owner is so much worse than anything else? And then why change your mind?

Rowain 'forgetting' to reorder it PGO > Governor > Vanilla is sloppy. Rowain is very rarely sloppy. The more I think about it, the more I don't like this.

When I first learned what the PGO does (cleared it with Jabbz) my first instinct was uggs a role that kills the own people is bad. As soon as I posted my first list I thought "Am I an idiot? PGO is exactly the role for me if I tell town early enough (around lynchtime D1). So I shot a new mail using Jabbz' order for timesaving (the 2 posts happened 2 minutes apart).
If you think I used a clever plan for that the why didn't I simply say Lover was my second discard where I could easily point to WW35 and my opinion about Loverrole there?
But this is now the last time I will talk about my discardorder.

[Gazglum]

But this is now the last time I will talk about my discardorder.

Lol, the word of God has come down. But thanks Rowain, if you're town, I can see this would be teeth-grindingly annoying.

[Rowain]

I would now really like for everyone to claim their role and their reasoning for picking and their nightaction if they did one including the reasoning for it.

And I would like it to happen in this order:
First Gazglum then Prometheus, Dp101, Fenn, Meiz, novice, Lewwyn, zakalwe

Assuming he doesn't BS us I would also like Jkaen to post what he and Adrien talked about in Masonthread and how Adrien tread the game.

And yes I want all powerroles because that forces scum whom to kill or to take risks. If we mislynch as often that this really becomes a problem then we deserve to lose anyway.

[Gazglum]

While I have you Rowain, you started dissecting Adrien here:

Your votes have been in a similar vein from "I feel uneasy about Psilly". (He could well be your scumbuddie and you were testing waters for later distancing) to "Good case Gazglum" without even mentioning Meiz' answer and finally "Meiz looks rather skish " which is funny as the good case from Gazglum was done with Meiz as scum.

AdrienIer

I didn't realise it at the time, but when you attacked Adrien for saying Meiz looks SKish, you yourself had previously said,

And for the Regoarrarr-memorial award

2/54, times 3, times 12. We could easily have a couple of players who were given the choice to play as SK.

My bet is on Meiz.

Why was it scummy for Adrien to think the same thing as you?

[Gazglum]

Ah, that is unfortunate, because I don't want to claim my role.

[Lewwyn]

Oh sorry, completely misread that

There seems to be a lot of that going around...