WW #43 - The Asha'man

[Fenn]

@novice, I didn't put much stock into that post at the time. Knowing that Adrien was a Mason makes the meaning behind his last post very clear, but when I first read it I thought it sounded very weak. Basically "just trust me, I'm innocent."

[zakalwe]

Zakalwe, with your Vig theory in mind, do you think Gazglum is town?

If Gazglum had claimed Vigilante like I initially thought he was doing, his play would have been terrible, to the point of being scummy. But when he didn't want to claim, I figured he probably wasn't a vigilante after all. His posting has been steadily good so I feel pretty good about his innocence currently.

Killing AdrienIer is perhaps defensible, if you posit that "we would have lynched him anyway". But I said that any vigs should hold their shots, and AdrienIer himself said this:

You think I should have said something earlier today ? Well for some reason I went to bed late last night, and I had some stuff to do today so while I followed the posts I didn't take the time to intervene (also I didn't feel the need : unless a vig shoots me I'll be alive tomorrow to explain what needs to be explained). My "second chance to prove my towniness" can come very easily tomorrow.

The "exciting brush with death" was only the second most exciting thing that happened last night, sorry for not reacting like I normally would have.

Gazglum you must have a power role or you wouldn't have discarded doctor (regardless of what you stated about doctor being a late game role). If you're another roleblocker you can roleblock me (actually please do). If you're a vig please don't shoot me (or anyone actually, shooting right now is premature). You can always shoot me on n2 if you still think I stand out.

Saying quite openly that he feels confident that he can dodge the lynch, so long as nobody shoots him in the night. Explicitly asking to be role-blocked, but not vigged. Yet you decided to do exactly that, ignoring his pleas. Not a great decision, IMHO.

(For the record, my first instinct was also to believe this claim. But it's definitely worth questioning. And I have a tendency to be a bit gullible when it comes to spotting fake claims.)

By the way, I certainly didn't feel like we were bound to lynch AdrienIer today. That could be a difference of perspectives, since I wasn't on when Gazglum posted his case. But I figured AdrienIer would most likely bounce back and we'd end up lynching one of the new guys who we were too kind to lynch on day one despite their unconvincing play. So in that respect, I agree with Rowain, that AdrienIer was a plausible night kill for mafia, too. With two villagers on the block on day one, they might feel good about their covers and just want a safe kill that denies us information.

Cross-posting with a reply of sorts. Though feel free to elaborate more. He asked explicitly to be roleblocked, but not vigged. What was your take on that?

[Fenn]

My take on that is that there's more than one person on the scum team, and roleblocking one doesn't stop any of the others from making the kill. As for not wanting to be vigged, I can't recall anybody ever asking to be vigged, scum or town. He would have said that regardless of his alignment.

[zakalwe]

"Please roleblock me" is pretty much the same as saying "I don't have an active ability", isn't it?

But I can see how confirmation bias would just automatically translate that into "I'm a mafia goon", actually.

It's easier to argue with the benefit of hindsight.

[Dp101]

"Please roleblock me" is pretty much the same as saying "I don't have an active ability", isn't it?

But I can see how confirmation bias would just automatically translate that into "I'm a mafia goon", actually.

It's easier to argue with the benefit of hindsight.

Sorry, but I don't follow this. What is the benefit of being roleblocked? Do you mean jailed? Did he mean jailed? Mason being roleblocked does nothing and seems like a pointless thing to state, and why would wanting to be roleblocked make them a mafia goon?

[Jkaen]

He was saying that he wasnt going to do anything bad during the night and if it made you feel better roleblock him, but dont vig him as he was going to reveal important stuff today

[Rowain]

With two villagers on the block on day one, they might feel good about their covers and just want a safe kill that denies us information.

It might even be that scum read Adriens plea as having a proof that he is innocent on the next day.

I can accept the new players not seeing it. I can accept Jkaen not seeing it but I'm hardpressed to believe that Gazglum couldn't see any reason why scum might kill Adrien.

So Gazglum if you area villager be so kind and tell us your real reasoning behind your actions/talks/reads else I will be forced to vote you which might lead to a meltdown between us, my death and a village loss.

The fact that now someone has claimed to be a vig doesn't change anything about that.

[Rowain]

He was saying that he wasnt going to do anything bad during the night and if it made you feel better roleblock him, but dont vig him as he was going to reveal important stuff today

This opens the question to you why were you 2 so sure he wouldn't get nightkilled after this announcement ?

[novice]

With two villagers on the block on day one, they might feel good about their covers and just want a safe kill that denies us information.

It might even be that scum read Adriens plea as having a proof that he is innocent on the next day.

This is a good point.

Let's go back to N1. Fenn posts this:

Well, my bad for stubbornly sticking to Psilly all day. I did like his last few posts much better than the ones before, but I still felt that he edged out Adrien in scumminess. Clearly, I was wrong (or both candidates were town...). If nothing changes I would probably vote for Adrien tomorrow.

Ok, so not planning to kill him, then? If you are, why not just say that Adrien is your top suspect?

Adrien says

My "second chance to prove my towniness" can come very easily tomorrow.

If you're a vig please don't shoot me (or anyone actually, shooting right now is premature). You can always shoot me on n2 if you still think I stand out.

Day two dawns.

Huh, interesting N1.

Huh, indeed. Why so surprised?

Later, Gaz gives the town perspective on events:

Tell me Gazglum why did Adrien die last night and what do you think scum did? And what happened to scumkill if Adrien was not killed by them?

Sure.

I think Adrien was targetted by a town-aligned vigilante who was swayed by your and my honeyed words, or wanted to rectify Jabbz's mistake.

I think that scum aimed their kill at Zak or me, and a doctor protected the target. Therefore I think there is a doctor out there. Therefore, I think it is anti-town to call for a complete role-claim at this stage. Therefore, I think you are likely scum.

Followed by:

Alright, I think that's been long enough. Dunno what the scum were up to, but I'm a Vig, and I shot AdrienIer last night.

Between how he was only spared the lynch due to mod error, his unconvincing (to me) post in the night, and several people declaring their intent to vote for him tomorrow, it seemed to me that he was the de-facto lynch target going into Day 2 . For that reason I decided to shoot him, so that we could try lynching somebody else, and hopefully Adrien would flip scum too. Obviously I had no inkling that he was in a Masonry with somebody else or I would have held off on doing anything.

Still, it's not a total loss. Jkaen is confirmed town in my eyes, and if you believe that scum would never have NK'ed Adrien last night then that points to me being town as well. I delayed claiming Vigilante so we could get everyone's speculation on who killed Adrien and why.

J'accuse, etc. etc.
Mafia killed AdrienIer and now think they can pass it off as a justified vig kill.

Fenn

[novice]

tl;dr for Meiz:
Fenn because Novice