[spoilers] DTG thinks filthy casuals are ruining Realms Beyond

[Ruff_Hi]

He might ... but, unless he has roads or he has already moved is warrior towards our scout ... we should be able to stay clear of giving him that chance.

[greenline]

Thinking out loud, the Mysticism civs are:

• Arabs (+ TW, leader = Shaka/Stardoor)
  
• Korea (+ Mining, leader = Brennus/Nicolae)
  
• India (+ Mining, leader = Sury/pindicator)
  
• Aztecs (+ Hunting, leader = Wang/Nyles)
  
• Inca (+ Agriculture, leader = Mao/us)

Let's assume that everyone (barring Eikad, maybe) needed Hunting + Agriculture to set their capitals up.

in RtR, Korea is Agri/Mining, Arabs are Agri/Myst, and India is Myst/Wheel ()

[DTG]

in RtR, Korea is Agri/Mining, Arabs are Agri/Myst, and India is Myst/Wheel ()

Oh, thanks! Well, no big deal. If anything that removes Nyles from the situation and improves our odds.

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A mechanics question: does RtR eliminate/hide the "sabotage building" option from the EP screen? (i.e. can one calculate hammers invested in the current build, or has Krill deliberately hidden this?)

Regardless, we're now at war with Eikad.










These are his graphs:

There's a 1-turn delay to these, so he may have a Warrior out, as picklepikkl noted.

Eikad's capital is at size 1 and he has Bronze Working. His Worker is now chopping. Note that he doesn't have a 2H city center, due to his move.

Anyway, his start has been strange and slow but chopping will speed things up in the short-term. I'll run a quick test later today, to see how soon he could produce his first Settler, if he went all-out. Going Worker ---> Worker seems more likely, though.

[picklepikkl]

Hunh. Interesting start from Elkad.

By the way, while I was in-game to pause for Borsche (again. sigh.), I noticed that the event log showed that the lion attacked us and we killed it without a scratch. I didn't touch them, but I guess that means we can clean up the signs south of Elkad, and we should remember that our free win has been used up.

EDIT: Also, I think we should move our Quechua north next turn; I don't want Elkad to feel threatened unless we're actually threatening him (and we have no shot at walking into his capital, given that chop can easily finish a Warrior).

[Ruff_Hi]

How about we go sort of half way with our Q ... instead of boring straight in (ie 1SW), we show him that we have a Q in the neighbourhood but don't be as threatening ... by ... going 1W. After that, I think we turn around, remove our scout and ask for peace.

[DTG]

We have to be a bit careful: our Worker will be outside of our culture in 4 turns and should ideally be covered by *something*, even if the chances of a Wolf spawning and attacking are pretty slim.

There's also going to be a turn (in 6 turns, I think) where both our Worker and Settler are outside of our culture, on different tiles. So ideally we'll have a Scout and Quecha in the area, maybe with the Scout in the north fogbusting, and the Quecha accumulating a fortification bonus on the new city spot.

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On another note, I forgot to say that if we can claim the Silk Forest 2W of our intended city site...



Fishing drops down the short-term list of "techs that are useful," whereas Archery has now shot up given that we've seen Elkad has Bronze Working and we have no means to research it quickly.

[picklepikkl]

I'm not sure I understand why the Silk Forest is a functional replacement for the lake -- it's not a 2c tile, which I thought was the point of Fishing. What am I missing?

I agree that Archery is a priority, as much as I dislike the notion. Getting axed is no way to go, and I could totally see greenline giving us capital copper to make the close starts more interesting. On that note, I do think we should get out of his territory and ask for peace this turn; Elkad played his turn and posted in his thread for the first time in ages, which makes me worry that he might freak out and overreact. Soothing ruffled feathers ASAP (and securing the NAP into the bargain) feels like it should also be a priority.

[DTG]

I'm not sure I understand why the Silk Forest is a functional replacement for the lake -- it's not a 2c tile, which I thought was the point of Fishing. What am I missing?

The Forest Silk is marginally better than a Lake (in base Civ, assume 1F = 2H > 2C, and then adjust for RtR slavery nerfs). And, although the Lake tile in our capital will be better than the other current options, we have a number of competing priorities.

I wouldn't rule out Fishing by any means, but Elkad's opening is idiosyncratic and pushes up Archery and Bronze Working in my eyes. He's currently chopping something, rather than improving his resource tiles:




I don't think this approach is competitive in the long-run, but it could cause us problems before we are established.

I agree that Archery is a priority, as much as I dislike the notion. Getting axed is no way to go, and I could totally see greenline giving us capital copper to make the close starts more interesting. On that note, I do think we should get out of his territory and ask for peace this turn; Elkad played his turn and posted in his thread for the first time in ages, which makes me worry that he might freak out and overreact. Soothing ruffled feathers ASAP (and securing the NAP into the bargain) feels like it should also be a priority.

The capitals shouldn't have Copper. It makes a BW beeline the One Right Option, which benefits the Mining Civs (and Zulu) far too much.

I have moved out of his culture and offered peace, anyway. There's no point dragging the conflict out, and the other option was to sit on a resource.

[Ruff_Hi]

Interesting that he moved to improve the wheat before the corn. That cost him a worker movement turn. Any thoughts re why?

[DTG]

Interesting that he moved to improve the wheat before the corn. That cost him a worker movement turn. Any thoughts re why?

The Wheat is the best tile he has at size 1: 5F1H1C, versus 5F (Corn) or 5F1C (Sheep). So if he plans to be at size 1 for a while, that is the tile to improve.

What I *think* he's doing is utilizing a BW beeline to chop and whip a second Worker (he's Spiritual, so no turns are lost to the Slavery revolt). Let's say he put 1-turn into a Worker before improving the Wheat. That's 4/60H. He then grows to size 2, and chops. That's 20H + 6H (Wheat) + 1H (other tile) = 31/60H. He can then whip a Worker and improve the remaining resources.

I don't think it's optimal, but I haven't tested like he presumably has. My feeling is that he should have gone to the Corn (1-turn), then the Sheep (4 turns), then back to the Corn (4-turns), before finally going to the Wheat. That's basically what we did, mutatis mutandis.

Otherwise, he could be whipping and chopping Warriors? But that would be silly and wreck both our games.