[Spoilers] Diving into shark infested waters

[ipecac]

Well DTG that seems to be a very good plan let me ask you how can we get the GSs? I guess run scients in cap after 1st GE (can he bulb gunpowder so we can lib chemistry?) and in 3rd city working a citizen until we get the library up?

...

And we definitely want to skip PP if rushing Communism.

I see at least 2 other alternatives:

1) Since we start with Mercantilism and only Eng slots we can burn the first Eng on Golden Age and then quickly make Priest-> GS-> GS or something. It's costly to burn Engineer but it may get us to Communism much faster.

2) Run caste early on. Downside is that we'll almost certainly want to whip 1 pop into a worker asap from the first few cities, at the very least.

Also, part of point behind the Great Prophet bulb plan is that PP is needed for Communism anyway; PP-> Scientific Method-> Communism.

Regarding Spiral Minaret, I'm still thinking about it but am starting to lean to DTG's view.

[Alhazard]

Ren game discussion

Well DTG that seems to be a very good plan let me ask you how can we get the GSs? I guess run scients in cap after 1st GE (can he bulb gunpowder so we can lib chemistry?) and in 3rd city working a citizen until we get the library up?

...

And we definitely want to skip PP if rushing Communism.

I see at least 2 other alternatives:

1) Since we start with Mercantilism and only Eng slots we can burn the first Eng on Golden Age and then quickly make Priest-> GS-> GS or something. It's costly to burn Engineer but it may get us to Communism much faster.

2) Run caste early on. Downside is that we'll almost certainly want to whip 1 pop into a worker asap from the first few cities, at the very least.

Also, part of point behind the Great Prophet bulb plan is that PP is needed for Communism anyway; PP-> Scientific Method-> Communism.

Regarding Spiral Minaret, I'm still thinking about it but am starting to lean to DTG's view.

about PP
Then GE for GAge? and hard research Gunpowder
1 GS for partial Edu
1 GS for partial PP
1 GP for partial Lib grabbing chemistry
1-2 GS for SM
Hard research Communism?

That is a lot of GP and if we get 1 GE from those, our plan is SOL. Wonder how will we get the GP. I assume of course that this is all dependent on Commodore not grabbing Ghandi first.

[Alhazard]

Ren game discussion

Well DTG that seems to be a very good plan let me ask you how can we get the GSs? I guess run scients in cap after 1st GE (can he bulb gunpowder so we can lib chemistry?) and in 3rd city working a citizen until we get the library up?

...

And we definitely want to skip PP if rushing Communism.

I see at least 2 other alternatives:

1) Since we start with Mercantilism and only Eng slots we can burn the first Eng on Golden Age and then quickly make Priest-> GS-> GS or something. It's costly to burn Engineer but it may get us to Communism much faster.

2) Run caste early on. Downside is that we'll almost certainly want to whip 1 pop into a worker asap from the first few cities, at the very least.

Also, part of point behind the Great Prophet bulb plan is that PP is needed for Communism anyway; PP-> Scientific Method-> Communism.

Regarding Spiral Minaret, I'm still thinking about it but am starting to lean to DTG's view.

about PP
Then GE for GAge? and hard research Gunpowder
1 GS for partial Edu
1 GS for partial PP
1 GP for partial Lib grabbing chemistry
1-2 GS for SM
Hard research Communism?

That is a lot of GP and if we get 1 GE from those, our plan is SOL. Wonder how will we get the GP. I assume of course that this is all dependent on Commodore not grabbing Ghandi first.

Alternate strategy:
GE for GA
1 GS for partial Edu (1500/1800) in prince
Hard research lib (1400b) and grab PP (1800b)
Hard research Gunpowder or clear (1000/1200) with GE
1 GS for Partial Chemistry (1500/1800)
1 GS for SM? (1500/2400) so might need 2 GS
Hard research communism (2800b)

[Alhazard]

I will try some test games with the above strategies.

[Alhazard]

test game findings

I am going to rule out the strategy using a GP to bulb since that is very GPP intensive. Using the 2nd strategy, it kind of works. Make sure that the capital works a citizen until library is built (with overflow from 2nd worker whip) since the 2nd city really needs the extra hammer from the Engineer or otherwise it will be impossible to get religion in the capital to build library with overflow from 2nd worker whip. Put 300b into education using scientists then gunpowder, bulb Education ASAP, then start putting scientist beakers into lib while you work on getting the 2nd GS from the 2nd city. When ready, turn on research, Lib PP, then start GA to finish researching gunpowder while getting the 2-3 scientists to bulb chem and SM. My expansion did not slow down too much which is always a good thing.

[ipecac]

why gunpowder and chem when astro suffices?

Lib astro, or as like the prophet strategy knock out PP plus education and a scientist can partial bulb astro

[Alhazard]

why gunpowder and chem when astro suffices?

Lib astro, or as like the prophet strategy knock out PP plus education and a scientist can partial bulb astro

now those are interesting suggestions but I was thinking gunpowder for military protection if we get attacked early and chem for +1 workshop. If we are going all out, we can definitely lib astro as well.

[ipecac]

my reasoning was that assuming access to iron and horses, knights plus cats should be able to defend up to cuirassiers.

[DTG]

Try a game where you generate 5 Great Scientists: one or two for Education, one or two for Printing Press, two for Scientific Method. Use Caste System to generate these. Whipping Libraries will slow the bulbs down, so consider these low priority.

My main concern would be losing Liberalism, even after bulbing Education. How many beakers would a second bulb of Education waste? A lot?

[Alhazard]

Try a game where you generate 5 Great Scientists: one or two for Education, one or two for Printing Press, two for Scientific Method. Use Caste System to generate these. Whipping Libraries will slow the bulbs down, so consider these low priority.

My main concern would be losing Liberalism, even after bulbing Education. How many beakers would a second bulb of Education waste? A lot?

1200b, which is a lot. My concern with running caste is that it will slow expansion by a lot if we are not running serfdom. But will try.