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(August 29th, 2016, 10:26)Zalson Wrote: Any thoughts on Alhazard's plan(s)? To me, they seem far too slow. I think they're hit too excited by synergy (must generate 4 great people to bulb!) City 3 on t209? That's 8-10 turns after RMoG and scooter. Don't think that it's going to work out well for that team.
Imho this plan is suicide. Liberalism never guaranteed you Communism. Liberalism is cheap tech and if you have stable economy it is no more than 4-5 turns to fill that gap. If you lose 8 turns on the first settler it will cost you more later by the value of the cottages you havent build. They will have no use of the extra tech they get and stay very vulnerable by not having even gunpowder.
Kremlin is good but you cant defend it with knights. Also the weak side of their strategy is "slow-research" of the Communism. No idea how they get it in reasonable time. I predict that by turn 230 they will be backwards by all measures, behind by dozens of turns and easy target for any of their neighbors.
August 29th, 2016, 18:11
(This post was last modified: August 29th, 2016, 20:53 by GermanJoey.)
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(August 29th, 2016, 12:40)OT4E Wrote: Imho this plan is suicide. Liberalism never guaranteed you Communism. Liberalism is cheap tech and if you have stable economy it is no more than 4-5 turns to fill that gap. If you lose 8 turns on the first settler it will cost you more later by the value of the cottages you havent build. They will have no use of the extra tech they get and stay very vulnerable by not having even gunpowder.
Kremlin is good but you cant defend it with knights. Also the weak side of their strategy is "slow-research" of the Communism. No idea how they get it in reasonable time. I predict that by turn 230 they will be backwards by all measures, behind by dozens of turns and easy target for any of their neighbors.
Wow, I haven't paid much attention to their thread either, mostly because there's no way in hell I'm reading someone's huge, summary-less microplan unless I'm playing on the same team as them or something. But, from what you guys say, their plan seems pretty crazy. "Suicide" seems like a really good word for it.
Gimping yourself short-term to rush for the Kremlin in PB33 made a lot of sense, because once you won it you easily caught back up with cheap whips and the extra GA. But here, the Kremlin is so much further out that they won't even have a chance to do anything with it. It's sorta like, making an analogy to an ancient era start, doing a crazy 2-city rush for the Great Library and the Music artist, or something like that?
Or, maybe this is even a better way to put it: winning the lottery is a huge fortune that could change your life, but I wouldn't cut off my arms and legs as the price for someone's winning lottery ticket.
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(August 29th, 2016, 18:11)GermanJoey Wrote: Or, maybe this is even a better way to put it: winning the lottery is a huge fortune that could change your life, but I wouldn't cut off my arms and legs as the price for someone's winning lottery ticket.
I mean the question now is: is there a way we can hint to them that their grand strategy will not work? I understand that's at best a gray area in the lurker code but ... well ... If the game's for the enjoyment of the players and the player isn't considering all their options ....
I guess  is in order? I won't say anything but, man, are they in for a rough ride.
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Yeah don't notify them. THat's very much leading the players.
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(August 29th, 2016, 18:59)Zalson Wrote: (August 29th, 2016, 18:11)GermanJoey Wrote: Or, maybe this is even a better way to put it: winning the lottery is a huge fortune that could change your life, but I wouldn't cut off my arms and legs as the price for someone's winning lottery ticket.
I mean the question now is: is there a way we can hint to them that their grand strategy will not work? I understand that's at best a gray area in the lurker code but ... well ... If the game's for the enjoyment of the players and the player isn't considering all their options ....
I guess is in order? I won't say anything but, man, are they in for a rough ride.
No.
fnord
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Well I wasn't going to say anything but now I really am not going to.
August 29th, 2016, 20:50
(This post was last modified: August 29th, 2016, 20:53 by GermanJoey.)
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The very point of these civ pitbosses is handing out ropes to players to hang themselves with. Sometimes clever players will figure out that they can use their rope as a lasso instead, but, for the most part, we'll find each of these ropes around their original owners' necks by game end, I guarantee it. 
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First settler by T209 you say? 
I took my Serfdom start and continued it. I stayed in Serfdom until I wanted to whip the next 3 settlers, one from each city, then I revolted to HR/Slavery/OR. Not entirely sure about this but I figured with the Aztecs in particular you'd want to be in Slavery. Maybe other civs could play differently. You get about 20t of Serfdom from this and there's only really 1 whip I think I want to do in that time(in city 2 at the start).
Micro could definitely be tightened up in a lot of places, the south in particular was all over the place. But I accidently used the culture bug there, so perhaps it's still about right.
*6 workers
*2 Altars
*2 Warriors
*4 LBs
*2 Explorers
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(August 28th, 2016, 21:22)GermanJoey Wrote: One other thing tat I was a bit perplexed about was how to deal with the plethora of Mercantalism engineers polluting your GPP pools for the non-Spi civs. (as Spi would have caste) One or two GEs might be fine... one for a GA, another for Oxford or maybe a wonder or whatever, but, as the Phi and Spi civs are gonna gobble up all the good wonders pretty quickly, I think you'd really rather have GSes for bulbing into Education, Chemistry, or especially Astro. An academy would probably be pretty swell too. Unfortunately, all of your cities will be horribly polluted with GE GPP, making even later GSes (or whatever other kind of great person you'd want) more difficult to generate! I wonder if its actually worth it to keep one or two cities to ordinary citizens instead of the engineers in order to keep their GPP pools clean?
For GPP generation you need a city specialists as GP farm. Slow growth of GPs in all cities is not an option, may be just for PHI leaders. In Ren National epic is still available so I'd recommend to put it as a goal. City size of ~15 can pop 3-4 GS during GA with pacifism and NE.
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I was thinking more about the Academy and it seems pretty good? I'm assuming here you're not going for any of the first-to bonuses, in which case that's what your GP should be focused on. In that case I think you want to go Nat -> Constitution and Constitution is the tech you really want to speed up. Work a citizen in your second city, get an early library and save gold. By the time the GP comes out you're still probably 20-25t away from Constitution and an Academy is easily worth >20bpt at 100% science in a Bureau cap. I think that's better than Merchant bulbing Const(need to build a much more expensive market), scientist bulbing Edu(a tech that won't do anything for a while) or sitting on engineer for ages. You can let the engineer in the cap finish the second GP for a golden age to get into Representation.
Also, more musing on my sim; the final 3 settlers are all whipped within a few turns of each other. It might be possible to line them all up on the same turn and revolt into your religion when they're moving.
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