Falamar got ADA for a bit in old versions of EitB, because everyone picked Hannah back when FIN still worked BtS style. It's since been removed, if not before the FIN change then probably soon after, and now Hannah is Insane.
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[LURKERS ONLY] Huge Lurkers Hugely Lurking the Huge PBEM
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That's a great post Ichabod, and has me convinced. Adding to it:
1.) The "Lanun area" in NE is definitely the weakest area without considering the Lanun bonuses. Much of their tiles are forested, they have poor hammers available to make use of Falamar's Expansive trait, the food tiles are worse, and there's no rivers. Also, the Lanun have the worst starting tech so it'll take 'em a bit to make up for that. 2.) The pirate cove is really good, but you can only place one within a range of 3 tiles. A city will likely only get two of them, 3 if you plan for it.. They also cost a 20h workboat, which is hard to get early since there's so much other stuff to get and not building foodhammer units becomes a liability when you make like 15fpt at size 6. Finally, they need to be worked for 6 turns to be even as a good as a 4/0/1 agrarian grass river farm, and then 13 more turns to be better. And even if the Pirate Cove is still too crazy, even in light of the Lanun having very little going for them otherwise, consider that practically everything in FFH2 is pretty crazy. Like, Mahala has the two strongest traits plus gets to upgrade units at ONE FOURTH the cost, which is kinda like starting the game with the Kremlin. Oh, and also she gets a bunch of free extra starting units for some reason. There's a guy that freezes the game for 13 turns. He gets to play the game and you don't, for an IRL month. Another civ can build super strong horse units that move a billion tiles per turn. Another civ gets to build units that can effortlessly get like ten billion XP. etc, etc. Every civ has something ridiculous like that. As far as Cultists go, I agree that simply removing ocean tiles should be enough to stop them from being too obnoxious in the early game. Tsunami is only range-1 in EITB, FWIW. (August 16th, 2016, 01:04)Quagma Blast Wrote: Falamar got ADA for a bit in old versions of EitB, because everyone picked Hannah back when FIN still worked BtS style. It's since been removed, if not before the FIN change then probably soon after, and now Hannah is Insane. Thanks. I was looking at the changelog doc and it can be very inaccurate. It didn't list this change, only the one where he gained ADA. Regarding cultists, there's a change in version 12 that gives all ships +50% against disciple units. A trirreme costs 75 (normal) hammers and has strenght 7, a cultist costs 120 hammers and is strenght 5. You can't defend cultists with stack defenders if they are on the water. Considering this, I think they are counterable, with a little bit of effort. I don't think Cultists will be the one right choice. They are very expensive and don't have that much fighting power apart from the collateral, which other units can get as well (only in the disciple side of things, there's Leaves summons and Ritualists). As a defensive tool, what can cultists do against a stack of Horse Archers, if the attacking player is careful not to leave the main stack near water? I think the map is balanced enough to make them a viable option, but not a imperative one.
I hope DaveV doesn't run away with the Lanun, or I'll feel bad about ruining this game... Though I have to say that even a big lead shouldn't result in a concession, if players are willing to try (we have quite a history of big comebacks in FfH). Mardoc's PBEM 16 analogy doesn't really fit, since that map had almost no land connection between players, so no one could contest the pure economic gameplay of the Lanun (I designed the damned thing, so it's my fault, mind you).
(August 22nd, 2016, 17:48)Qgqqqqq Wrote: Player Ranking: I disagree. Ellimist is great, but TBS is one of the Civ Deities. If I ever become the dictator of the world, I'll gladly leave the job of running it to TBS. There's some other players too, so I guess I'd make TBS the military advisor.
August 30th, 2016, 00:25
(This post was last modified: August 30th, 2016, 00:32 by GermanJoey.)
Q has got to be the most anal retentive person on earth, good god.
He wanted a week to make his picks, then they spend another week playing just three turns, and now he wants to spend a restart the game to avoid spending 10 seconds renaming a folder.  (also, note that his v12.1 installation instructions were literally to do what everyone did, which is to copy the new assets folder over the old v12 assets folder!)Well, its just a bit of skin off my nose I guess, not a huge deal, but I have a feeling that Bob is gonna explode if there's another thing like this. I also wonder if Dave is fine with the restart because he regrets Fishing as his first tech... that choice seemed like a bad idea to me. Coves are surely awesome but I don't think you want to be working unimproved tiles for 25 turns...
Well, I was one who had to rename folders to play EitB games in the past, due to 2 concurrent PBEMs. It's annoying, but so is a lot of other stuff in life. What settles the issue for me is that Qg said this is the installation that you should do, so it's not a mapmaker mistake.
Mods are starting to get into my nerves lately. Too much EitB and RtR versions, it all becomes blurred and confusing... And the changelogs are not very good between the versions (RtR ones are better than EitB ones -> The EitB cummulative changelog lies about a lot of stuff). I agree that going fishing first seems a mistake for Dave. Most people will be rocking a 6 and a 5 yield tile from their capitals, followed by high commerce incense, before his first WB is out. And he'll have to work forests to get the WBs, not water, losing the commerce advantage. He says the starts explode after the coves, but all starts explode after the first improvements (this is an error I see a lot of people making, disregarding the snowball effects that other plays would have, compared to the one chosen). We'll see what happens, perhaps I'm yet again underrating coves and Lanun. (August 30th, 2016, 00:25)GermanJoey Wrote: I also wonder if Dave is fine with the restart because he regrets Fishing as his first tech... that choice seemed like a bad idea to me. Coves are surely awesome but I don't think you want to be working unimproved tiles for 25 turns... Fishing first is the correct play with Dave's star. 15 turns to tech should give him enough time to hit size 4 with a garrison and an explorer/second defender. 5t later he's got the fish netted and a lake cove. I haven't looked all that closely, but I think he can only get one more cove in his cap, which should be doable by t25. That's 3 excellent tiles plus the 2nd Lake. Worker 1st plus Ag let's him improve the comerceless wheat and farm some lakeside tiles. That a pretty weak sauce compared to fish + coves. He'll want a couple of workers before his first settler but they can wait. See Mardoc's Ffh xvi thread. 
fnord
August 31st, 2016, 01:28
(This post was last modified: August 31st, 2016, 01:32 by GermanJoey.)
(August 30th, 2016, 19:10)Thoth Wrote:(August 30th, 2016, 00:25)GermanJoey Wrote: I also wonder if Dave is fine with the restart because he regrets Fishing as his first tech... that choice seemed like a bad idea to me. Coves are surely awesome but I don't think you want to be working unimproved tiles for 25 turns... Huh... that's pretty surprising to hear. Can he really get 3 workboats out that quickly? I don't have a very good feel for FFH2 game pace anymore. I'm looking at the start again, and I suppose he will have four 3f unimproved tiles in his BFC, that's not too bad to grow on... although he needs Fishing to work 3 of them, right? Growing to size 4 on grass forests just doesn't feel optinal to me. edit: He really wouldn't need Agrarianism to speed up his settlers because of Exp, as the two 1/2 grass forests will essentially be 5fh tiles for him. Would grow to 2 -> work on a settler for awhile -> grow to size 4 or 5 while building workboats when Fishing is available -> finish settler be better? I guess I'll just have to watch what he does!
I think Thoth is right, thinking about it. A worker doesn't really make WBs any faster (since no mining) and the only good tile he'd improve is the 6 yield wheat. And I think the fur will actually take a turn of fishing from that extra commerce, making it even better.
I think it could be worth a sim... |
