Forum game of Through the Ages - new edition

[chumchu]

I would have upgraded selective and disbanded bronze if you want to go for Gates as you will want pop to really use that production.

[Cheater Hater]

I would have upgraded selective and disbanded bronze if you want to go for Gates as you will want pop to really use that production.

That makes sense, though I think part of my decision is that Kremlin and both Computer upgrades are a production outlet that doesn't need extra production, and growing is a big investment (the Bread & Circuses mostly).  A lot of it is that I don't have a sense of how many turns are left and how much I can accomplish.

Edit: There are so many things to think about on a turn--I knew Wealthy Territory was coming up (since I placed it), and yet I had to calculate my entire turn to figure out whether I wanted to bid 5 or 7. There are just so many possibilities on these Age III turns--it should be overwhelming, but it just makes me want to play more--btw, with the turn pace here slowed a bit, I'm willing to join the second game now (ideally 4 players) where we can go full-competitive.

[Cheater Hater]

Really, I would have actually triggered International Agreement? I specifically chose not to play an event the turn before exactly because that would have ended the Age and antiquated Kremlin before I could finish it (and I was weakest overall, and didn't have a Age III Event I especially wanted to play). Overall, I've probably lost, though I think my ending events benefit me most, and getting two Movies on the last turn was worth the effort and makes me look decent at least.

[chumchu]

Congratualstions Rho.

I was lucky with the timing on international agreement but iconoclasm was brutal as the last player with a wonder to finish. I'm guessing you played it ; )

That's what I love about the game, agonizing over your turns. IMO that can be even better in a slow online format. I'm up for a 4player game after that 1 point loss.

My game lost focus in age 2. I was not sure If I were going for military or culture with Chaplin/Hollywood. I drew a lot of attacks but not any tactic which leaves you hoping. That lead to me trying to stay flexible too long and building too little arm and too much infrastructure, coal was questionable and sci method bad. That technology war devastated me as I could not cope with the build up while getting Chaplin or First space flight which were the key culture cards for me in age III.

[Cheater Hater]

Congrats Rho--having a one point difference between first and second is crazy, and I'm just happy I got within 30 points of you two after not focusing on culture until basically Age IV

Other than the turn where I should have taken Air Forces, did I make any big mistakes?

I'm obviously up for the four-player game--I even joined a public game that's just getting started (though unfortunately that's probably going to be a little boring, as I'm going Moses again).

[chumchu]

CH. I want to stress that you did extremely well for a first game. The only big mistakes I saw I have already pointed out.

As for the next game. Let's get it going in the coming week and see if we can not convince a fourth player to join us. (If there are none on RB I can recruit one from my local group.)

[rho21]

Wow. I thought it was close going into the final turn, but even so. Yes, I played Iconoclasm, and I am incredibly glad it came out on precisely that turn. I didn't feel as though I had a particularly good game. Well, Age I went really well, but Age II onwards just didn't quite come together. Thankfully for me, that was true for all of us.

I definitely feel you are coming from a different meta to me, chumchu. The group I usually play with has a bit of a focus on Age III wonders, particularly First Space Flight. I really wasn't expecting to be able to take it from the 1 section. We also very rarely play Code of Laws, on the basis that the science for it is needed for other more urgent upgrades (including a government before too long). We might end up taking it in an unusually heavy science situation, though, which I guess you both had.

CH: From my perspective, I thought taking Kremlin was your biggest mistake. Unless I have loads of production and a solid plan to finish it quickly, I very rarely take an Age II wonder. Too often you suddenly find you need to build military or something else critical, and the wonder sits there and prevents you taking one from Age III. Maybe that's my meta speaking though. In this case, I could have taken one more card to finish Age III before you could finish the Kremlin.

Sorry to both of you for the slow turn pace at times. That's not at all normal for me, as hopefully I'll be able to demonstrate in future games.

[rho21]

Yes, agreed that was an excellent first game from CH. Competitive all the way through, which is good to see. Getting the timing right to convert your economy to producing culture is one of the trickiest things to get a good feeling for (indeed none of us really got it right there, I felt).

CH: Very glad to hear you enjoyed it and want to play more. You'll win one of these before long, I'm sure.

[Cheater Hater]

How are you supposed to primarily get your culture? I see five main paths to get culture:
1. Small gains in the early-going (early wonders, Religions/Age I culture buildings, playing events) that add up over time
2. Theaters, mostly Movies--are Libraries supposed to be good? They weren't in our game at all, and it seems like they're just a bad Theater and bad Lab in one package--is it a strategy to, say, get a Journalism as your first major science investment (maybe getting by on UC/Library of Alexandria or science actions) and hope you can get by without much science?
3. The Age III wonders, which reward you for specializations (but mostly in production)
4. The Age III events, but those seem very random and biased towards the military-focused--maybe this works better in four-player games where more events will be played overall (both because there are more players, and fewer "weakest" players
5. Military, through War over Culture and Armed Intervention--as an interaction, it requires you know how much military you can expect to show up, which makes it the most-difficult to put into practice for newer players.

Again, I've only played one game, but it feels like there's a lot of luck there, especially in the military cards and Age III in general. Sure, there's enough redundancy to make sure you aren't completely dead in the early game (mostly military), but are you supposed to be building to a point where you need, say, Fast Food Chains, Movies, or War over Culture to show up early in Age III, and if not you lose?

[chumchu]

I had the same feeling of it not coming together, I wanted to push culture or military but could not get a good enough combo going as I was trying for both at the same time. Combining great wall and theaters is an anti combo as great wall pushes you into building a lot of units for mid game military dominance while dramas need the exact same mid-game pop and resources to get the culture lead. St. Peters would have been so much better for me. You two denying me cannons di not help either.

FSF is great in all metas but it came the turn CH played the war over technology. I had to choose between 1) getting FSF and the potential to defend against future wars but conceding a lot in the war and risking an aggression 2) Getting FSF and defending the war/aggression but not being able to defend against future wars and 3) Skipping FSF and defending the war/aggression and being able to defend against future wars. Since two of the other wonders were okay for me I choose the last option.

About meta more generally. My group was in that meta until some of us started playing in the online league. This was of in the old edition, but there improving to Iron was incredibly risky and hard to make it work. Investing 5 actions, 9 resources and 5 science in improving mines very often lost out in the short run to the player getting actions and military and supplementing production with actions cards and events/aggressions and was not great in the long run as you often disbanded all your mines for military by the end.

The new edition has changed it a fair bit.
1) Military is no longer dominant. Early military has been hit hard by the new defense rules giving the players more time to build up. Late military is slightly nerfed as well. You still need to keep up but you have some extra breathing room.
2) Action cards are even better than before, all the bad and situational ones have been made much more versatile.
3) Culture strategies are much more viable with the discounts on theaters and libraries and the boost to culture leaders and wonders. Especially theaters have gone from utter garbage to really nice with one of the combo cards. Them being cheaper and action cards being better means that you do not need great infra to build the age 1/2 ones.

I would still say that action advantage is the most important in 2 players and improving mines(and other infra) usually a bad idea. The more players you are the more important mines(and other infra) becomes and actions less so as it is harder to get yellows and deny every player their critical cards.

My favorite card in age 1 is Monarchy, though I think I play it slightly too often. I'm expecting your card ratings to be wildly different than mine: http://boardgamegeek.com/article/21690614#21690614