Space Shuttle Hate Thread [spoilers]

[greenline]

>no LES
>integrated second stage
>Hydrolox engines with srbs on a manned LEO vehicle
>waste of payload weight on wing shape
>payloads have to be carried inside the reentry vehicle
>fragile AND exposed heat shield 
>those refurbishment delays and costs
>was chosen instead of continuing the saturn program 

2/10 would not fly.

(password is bandraw)

[greenline]

also gimme a start and picks so i can proceed to not sim it anyway, pretty please?

[Commodore]

Is this your way of saying all Challengers are doomed ? Too soon man

[greenline]

Is this your way of saying all Challengers are doomed ? Too soon man

What?

[greenline]

blah, writing server code makes me bored. this thread needs some more spam 

other game (Dreylin, picklepickl, AdrienIer, gingereagle) predictions:

Dreylin is clearly the best of the bunch. Unless he doesn't bother trying because toomanygames or in the spirit of competitiveness I expect a first place finish from him.
picklepickl definitly has the enthusiasm and drive to win, and he definitely should have learned from his mistakes in 74B. A second place finish would be likely, or possibly first place or third if the game works out like that.
AdrienIer doesn't seem like a bad player, but his past games have shown he has habit of getting unfocused. Like in PB32 it seems like he gave up after losing the mids for a while, until Mr Cairo's invasion gave him something to fight against. Or how he didn't race hard enough to knights in 74A and then kind of gave up when Khan killed his stack. 3rd or second place probably.
gingereagle... might wanna lay off the booze while playing 

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

Picks to follow

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

Note the fish 1SW

Pick list

We do reserve the right to remove picks should there be a consensus form. Duplicates will be assigned at random, please give me at least 2.

Map is as asked for, random, equalised starts, everyone should have a fair chance although significant differences in nature. Some wonder resources available, but not early. Noble tool thinks it is very equal. It is less lush than usual by RB standards. Made by throwing a normal torus, beefing caps and sinking land to make equal. Because BTS toro will be played on Noble. Does have the random improvements. No barbs again.

Standard rules - no GLH, no blockades, no spies, no being a jerk. Probably no war eles unless everyone wants them.

Wang Kong Pro/fin of Spain myst/fish
Mehmed Exp/org of Natives fish/agri
Monty agg/spi of England fish/min
qin pro/ind of India myst/min
Ghandi phi/spi of Dutch agri/fish
Ragnar agg/fin of arabia Myst/wheel
Brennus spi/cham of Celtica myst/hunt
washington chm/exp of Greece fish/hunt
Juils Imp/org of Carthage fish/min
Hasi cre/spi of byzantium myst/wheel
Tokugawa agg/pro of Inca agri/myst
Suliman phi/imp of Maya myst/min
Louis cre/ind of Portugal min/fish
Kubli agg/cre of eithiopia

[greenline]

Thanks for making another map, REM! This start looks interesting. Not the best long term commerce potential here, but it will be servicable enough.

I did some preliminary simming with Wang Kong of Spain (based on a small torusland roll, not going beyond making the first settler), and that was enough to convince me that you have to have a combination of agri/hunt/fish/mining for the start techs. Anything else wastes too much worker time and is too slow (WB first isn't an option either since you're stuck with 2/1 tiles until the cap border pop). That gives these as viable options:

Mehmed Exp/org of Natives fish/agri
Monty agg/spi of England fish/min
Ghandi phi/spi of Dutch agri/fish
washington chm/exp of Greece fish/hunt
Juils Imp/org of Carthage fish/min
Louis cre/ind of Portugal min/fish
Kubli agg/cre of eithiopia

Pruning the garbage leaders from that gives:

Mehmed Exp/org of Natives fish/agri
Ghandi phi/spi of Dutch agri/fish
Juils Imp/org of Carthage fish/min
Louis cre/ind of Portugal min/fish

I'm feeling Mehmed is probably the best pick, but I'll have to do some more simming. Will probably have my pick ironed out tomorrow afternoonish?

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

Thanks for making another map, REM! This start looks interesting. Not the best long term commerce potential here, but it will be servicable enough.

I did some preliminary simming with Wang Kong of Spain (based on a small torusland roll, not going beyond making the first settler), and that was enough to convince me that you have to have a combination of agri/hunt/fish/mining for the start techs. Anything else wastes too much worker time and is too slow (WB first isn't an option either since you're stuck with 2/1 tiles until the cap border pop). That gives these as viable options:

Mehmed Exp/org of Natives fish/agri
Monty agg/spi of England fish/min
Ghandi phi/spi of Dutch agri/fish
washington chm/exp of Greece fish/hunt
Juils Imp/org of Carthage fish/min
Louis cre/ind of Portugal min/fish
Kubli agg/cre of eithiopia

Pruning the garbage leaders from that gives:

Mehmed Exp/org of Natives fish/agri
Ghandi phi/spi of Dutch agri/fish
Juils Imp/org of Carthage fish/min
Louis cre/ind of Portugal min/fish

I'm feeling Mehmed is probably the best pick, but I'll have to do some more simming. Will probably have my pick ironed out tomorrow afternoonish?

Some balancing changes didn't take. There will be a 1/2/0 tile in the first ring somewhere.

[greenline]

ah; that changes a lot! turns out going wb first becomes viable. in fact on standard size i'm convinced it's the only viable option to avoid wasting worker turns.

more simming told me that going wb first gets you two workers and a settler and maybe a warrior on t22. going worker first is slower even if you have an EXP leader since the worker won't have enough to do while the techs come in. so now it becomes more about the civs...

since there was apparently a lot of sinking done on the map i think water will be a big factor. but since this is BtS and IMP doesn't boost feitoras portugal sucks. (not that it matters since it's louis but still). Dutch on the other hand is great. Especially with a SPI leader since you can dip into slavery to whip dikes. And PHI means Lib is easy to get and libbing Astro could be a game winning strategy.

Natives are trash and EXP adds little to this start. Julius is solid and carthage is meh. Numids are a neat toy but HAs rarely get used over knights and cothons are too expensive without EXP. So here's my pick list:

Ghandi phi/spi of Dutch agri/fish
Juils Imp/org of Carthage fish/min
Mehmed Exp/org of Natives fish/agri
Louis cre/ind of Portugal min/fish