CIv 6 wonder balance discussion

[fluffyflyingpig]

Petra and desert hills is just as good as ever. Oxford is good in that it is one of very very few % boosts to science. No other % boosts till literally the end of the tech tree. The wonders that give extra trade routes combined with the trade route policies can be nice.

Stacking hammer bonuses and deleting/selling units to get gold, combined with buying stuff with gold at a discount seems like the way to go. Infinite units is tedious.

There are some weird negotiation bugs.

The religion victory gets impractical very fast unless you have the Yerevan city state near by. Then you can pick the upgrades for your apostles and pick the one that removes hostile religions and replaces with your own.


Use the avoid growth button! Its the check box on the city info bar next to the corn icon. +3 amenities is +10% to all yields, +1-2 amenities is +5%, opposite for negative amenities.

[Magil]

The game doesn't give access to strategic resource if a district is on top of it? If it doesn't, I don't see why it shouldn't, and it would be an easy and effective fix

I confirmed this in my game recently, seems like districts do give you a strategic resource they are placed upon.

Of course this can only happen if you put a district on a tile and it's later discovered there's a resource there.

[Gazglum]

Still testing things, but I think the Great Library is well balanced and will be very good if you beeline, and not good if you don't. Pyramids seems good - I like that you can rush build it as Qin, and then get the builer unit back again immediately.

The wonders that give you extra policy slots (Forbidden Palace?) are great. They feel immediately powerful and fun to use in any strategy.

I like that wonders don't (I think?) obsolete. I hated that feeling in Civ IV of trying NOT to advance.

[superjm]

From my experience

Top wonders: Pyramids, Petra in desert hill terrain, Ruhr Valley, Oxford, all 4 policy slot wonders
Pyramids is self-explanatory, Petra is somehow even better than it was in Civ 5 which is hilarious, Ruhr Valley provides an absurd production boost that comes at the time when all the cascading factory bonuses provide a large boost to base hammers, and Oxford provides a ton of extra science both in the form of the 20% boost and the free techs. In fact, I can't think of much else that grants free techs as opposed to just Eurekas. Policy slots are extremely powerful and getting extra slots for free is a huge boon that easily makes building those wonders worth it if you can manage it.

Not quite as good: Stonehenge, Colosseum, Hanging Gardens, Colossus
Getting a guaranteed early religion is great if you're going for that but I find religion to be not quite as strong this time around, especially since you need good faith output to add beliefs anyway and you don't have to worry about losing your pantheon anymore. I could be totally wrong though. Colosseum is being slept on I think, +3 amenities to potentially all your core cities at such an early tech is a big boost early on and even a life saver if you end up getting into long wars and suffering war weariness. The radius effect of Entertainment Districts don't kick in until far later in the game. Hanging Gardens is extra growth in all your cities, self-explanatory, though growth doesn't seem AS important as in Civ 5 since you're limited by your housing anyway. Still seems pretty strong. Finally I think Colossus is still very strong because trade routes are still very strong, and you don't need to pump as many hammers into it as you do Great Zimbabwe.

And then there's stuff that's situationally useful like the culture wonders that give great work slots or boost tourism/appeal or what have you. Venetian Arsenal and Great Lighthouse for maps where you expect a lot of naval combat, Hagia Sophia for spreading your religion everywhere. Mont St Michael if you're Kongo could be ridiculous if you have the right setup.

[Dreylin]

I found Mahabodhi to be very useful; as a relatively low faith civ that had Policied into my Great Prophet, it got me the Apostles I needed for an early fill-out of the beliefs and another good source of faith to set me up for the future.

[Serdoa]

Still testing things, but I think the Great Library is well balanced and will be very good if you beeline, and not good if you don't.

Tested building the GL today and it was a big letdown. You do indeed only get the boosts to the techs, similar to if you had gotten the eureka. But if you got the eureka already you don't get anything. As it is pretty easy to get the eurekas for most techs (normally I struggle only with the naval techs and the iron mine one) it really makes no sense imo to delay all your techs, invest heavily into culture to get the civic as early as possible AND invest 400 production into the wonder for that. If it would give you the 50% boost on top of what you have currently, it would be great, maybe a little too strong. As it is, I see no reason to ever build it.

[Gazglum]

I think the Library is a good idea for a wonder, but yes, on testing it does need to be cheaper to be worth pursuing. As you say, the eurekas are too easy to collect just through normal play to make it worthwhile otherwise.

[BRickAstley]

I think the Library is a good idea for a wonder, but yes, on testing  it does need to be cheaper to be worth pursuing. As you say, the eurekas are too easy to collect just through normal play to make it worthwhile otherwise.

Another idea: Gives the eureka for X number of techs that you haven't gotten the eureka for yet, from cheapest tech still available moving upwards. Establish a ceiling so you can't use it to slingshot modern techs, and arrive at X through testing for something powerful but not OP.

[Gaspar]

I think the Library is a good idea for a wonder, but yes, on testing  it does need to be cheaper to be worth pursuing. As you say, the eurekas are too easy to collect just through normal play to make it worthwhile otherwise.

Another idea: Gives the eureka for X number of techs that you haven't gotten the eureka for yet, from cheapest tech still available moving upwards. Establish a ceiling so you can't use it to slingshot modern techs, and arrive at X through testing for something powerful but not OP.

This is similar to how some of the Great Scientists work and definitely makes more sense than the current implementation.

I do think the eurekas get a lot harder as time goes on and you often have to make a real choice as to how long you want to wait to get a bonus that isn't all that essential since tech outstrips production anyway.  Particularly once you get to Medieval and beyond.  So I don't think free Eurekas are a bad bonus, just a bad bonus on an ancient/classical wonder.

[Serdoa]

I think it would be fine if it gave a 50% boost to x techs in the ancient/classical era. That way you have an upper ceiling how much science you actually can get from it in the best case and can match x against that. It would keep the idea of helping the early eras along, trading production for science. Not that anyone in his right mind would do that in the current state of the game. Even the AIs leave it in my games till the modern era when they build it, I assume just to get the Great Works slot.