Civ 6 Release and Update Discussion Thread

[AdrienIer]

This game was held on online speed. This speed is super fast. At one point I realized that I could 2 turn any military units except cats (which took 4 turns). That was because I was friends with Preslav (a military CS) which gave me +2 hammers for units in my cap and +4 in my second city which had an encampment. But when your units cost so little prod to make +2 is a huge bonus. So the fact that bonuses are fixed when costs change makes some things a lot better (and others a lot worse) than in normal speeds.

That is the correct behavior - it does not make city states better or worse depending on game speed. If outputs (e.g. city state production) were scaled the same as inputs (e.g. unit costs), you would literally have the same game speed again. To make a different game speed (online is supposed to be twice as fasts as normal) you need to either double production of halve costs - not change both. They halved costs, which is one of the correct ways to do it. If they also scaled down city state yields, that's effectively the same is doubling output from tiles and leaving everything else alone: it skews strategy towards tiles and away from city states. The way they did it, strategy is not skewed (at least by that - the fact that units still move at the same speed is the biggest effective difference).

The fact that the city state helped me build military units but not anything else real fast changed my strategy more than it would have in a normal game. I had no intentions to be particularly aggressive at the beginning of the game, but the city state made it much more efficient.

[SevenSpirits]

The fact that the city state helped me build military units but not anything else real fast changed my strategy more than it would have in a normal game. I had no intentions to be particularly aggressive at the beginning of the game, but the city state made it much more efficient.

If you were playing perfectly, it would not have affected your strategy more than in a normal speed game.

Let me give an example: Suppose your base hammers are 8 and the city state gives you 2 more. The city state is giving you a 25% boost towards building military units. That is true whether the units cost 50 or 100 production each.

Another way of looking at it is you can produce military units in 80% of the time. Again, it's true on both game speeds equally.

Suppose the city state production were also halved at Online speed. Then the city state would only be giving you a 12.5% boost towards building military units, and you would be less incentivized to build units.

[Singaboy]

Degradation of Civ games themselves is a point for debate. Degradation of Civilopedia is an objective fact
No Civ game poses a challenge without AI

Of course, no game poses a challenge without AI. If we don't talk about Civ1/2 which were great in their own context but with horrible AI and exploit possibilities, Civ 3 and Civ 4 (I guess Civ 5 too, though I hardly played it) had an AI that could win if the odds were stacked in their favor. In many AW games we played, we got overrun by the Civ3 AI because their stacks could threaten and take your cities.

Due to the sheer boredom I face in the mini adventure AW game on prince difficulty, I have started an Island Emperor AW game with Norway (not one of the overpowered Nations).
http://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/th...ar.601418/
I do not use exploits and yet, the AI can't even threaten me at all. Worse, at one point of the game, the AI suddenly 'popped' up next to an empty city. By popping up, I mean, literally popping up as there is zero animation of their movements to warn you. I initially thought, it's barbarians thanks to a revolt. So, what happens next?



Guess what happens next? Nothing, absolutely nothing, the three knights rest and wait to be killed. This is the ultimate let-down. Why doesn't the AI take the city? It has no unit inside, it has no walls. No unit nearby.

Unless they change the code that the AI actually does something meaningful besides being spectators in my own civ-sim, I am done with the game. What's the point of playing a game you know you will always win (besides some cheesy AI religion spam win).

I am sorry, but who tested this game? Maybe as pointed out, it's all intentional for the 'pokemon go' crowd. No matter what you do, you always win to feel happy?

[Hesmyrr]

I checked out several streams to see how the game was like at the day of release, and there were players beating Deity difficulty in like their second playthrough. Many systems introduced in Civ6 sound promising, but I cannot imagine single player having much longevity due to the miserable AI.

[E_T]

The one in this picture...

It's not very secret - it's Gandhi's standard message thanking the player for following the peacekeeper agenda agree it's appropriate though

you don't see the hidden picture (not what he says) that is part of this picture...

[Serdoa]

One issue with the AI is that it is unable to achieve anything than religious victory. I assume that is a bug that got introduced when creating the Religious Combat Scenario. Seems for that scenario everything but religious is deactivated and probably someone changed a wrong file, leaving the AI with only religious victory for the whole game.

The second issue with the AI is, that is sometimes forgets what its units were supposed to do. They just wander around aimlessly till they are picked back up by the AI.

Both issues can be corrected and for the first one there is already a mod. For the second we probably have to wait for the mod-tools though.

Anyhow, I don't think the AI was made intentionally bad to please anyone, but rather they changed systems in the development process and the AI needs to either be done after those systems are fixed (not enough time to do that) or be restructured when systems are changed. Which is a good way to make it not work the way it is supposed, because of missed calls that would have to be changed as well.

[Ranamar]

I found my first actually wrong Civilopedia entry:

There was an error in the very first civilopedia entry I looked at, in the first minute of gameplay. At least, I assume it's wrong. Would be pretty silly if it's telling the truth. (I assume they mean 25%.)

You're right.  I remember seeing that text and being very confused, now that you  mention it.  The fact that the number is right while the application of it is wrong means it's a lot less forgettable than the one that I posted.

[AdrienIer]

Something I've forgotten about yesterday's MP session is that city state quests are not global like in civ 5. Each player has a different quest, and they can't do anything to counter each other's quest

[BRickAstley]

One issue with the AI is that it is unable to achieve anything than religious victory. I assume that is a bug that got introduced when creating the Religious Combat Scenario. Seems for that scenario everything but religious is deactivated and probably someone changed a wrong file, leaving the AI with only religious victory for the whole game.

Yeah I've read that elsewhere, that there's some obvious holes in the AI with victory condition checks.

[fluffyflyingpig]

Looking at the log, the ais in my game are not ALL going for a religious win... they're just inept at everything but a relgious win.