Civ 6 Release and Update Discussion Thread

[pindicator]

I thought the Only First Four Cities thing was a bug and multiple copies were supposed to affect next four cities.

It's not. It matches the manual's description of how luxuries are supposed to work.

What a stupidly asinine mechanic!

I'm in the same boat as Borsche btw. The core of the game is fun, but there's just so much wtf design decisions and lack of polish.

[yuris125]

Also, I really hate that you can't name cities, surely someone has a mod for this by now?

This is promised, presumably in the first patch? In the devs stream the day before release say said "it's not in release version, but it's coming"

[Yazilliclick]

Yeah a lot of the problems don't so much reek of bugs to me but moreso that other bigger things were prioritized and time ran out. So a lot of ui polish is missing as well as some simple features and rules plus some questionable balance in areas. Thankfully that stuff is also usually the easy quick stuff to fix.

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[Borsche]

I still don't know how I feel about the Housing limitations. It reminds me a lot of Civ3 (a lot of this game reminds me of Civ3, tbh) where cities were limited to 6 before Aqueducts and (iirc) 12 before Hospitals - basically encouraging the spamming of a lot of smaller cities. The same thing kinda feels true here... obviously I haven't tested for any values but when your cities are generally stuck at 15 and below for all of pre-neighborhoods, food basically feels like a wasted resource. This is made doubly true when grassland hills are 2 food and plains hills are 1 food, meaning supporting a production city takes very little effort.

This struck me when I realized that my floodplains wheat farm surrounded by 2 post feud farms was pulling in an insane 9 food (reminding me of conquests agricultural civs) but it never really meant anything because that food gets immediately housed by about size 12.

This isn't a completely bad thing, and the growth curve isn't too far off from other games, but there's something about it that feels unsatisfying. Idk if it's the penalties being in the form of percentages making the reduction in growth feel abstract (as opposed to civ4 health where it was a clear -1 food for each unhealthy pop) or the strict limitations. I suppose it's good that a tile like the floodplain wheat doesn't break the game, but on the other hand it goes a really long way (when combined with the internal trade routes) into making the map irrelevant. A fact that really pisses me off after all the pre-release media with the designers claiming that the map would be relevant "For The First Time In A Civ Game"

[Sirian]

The notion that time ran out and a lot of things are simply unfinished is quite plausible. We'll know in another year, if it plays hella better by then.

Plenty of people here remember Civ3 and before, but the vast vast bulk of the huge Civ5 audience is new to the franchise. They literally don't know what has gone before and won't be upset by a repeat of old mistakes, because they don't know enough about the franchise to expect not to encounter such things ever again.


- Sirian

[Singaboy]

A fact that really pisses me off after all the pre-release media with the designers claiming that the map would be relevant "For The First Time In A Civ Game"

That's just PR talk, similar to Shafer's claims of the vastly improved multilayered AI for Civ5

By the way, I don't think Civ6 is like Civ3, at least from a warmonger point of view. All thanks to 1upt, which makes moving units and warfare in general a pretty frustrating thing. In fact, it's downright terrible (who cares about the AI, if you can't even move your units in a meaningful manner across the map).

In terms of city growth, there might be similarities. As for exploits, it seems to be just a compilation of all the bad exploits of Civ2-5 combined. Micromanagement seems to be very high on the like list of the programmers. I think of
The district rules
The traders assignments
The religious carpets of doom
The many cards for policies
The unit movements (why on earth do people complain about SOD, but like 1upt pita MM)
Eureka mechanism

I read about a new exploit. You can link support units to military and then get the support unit (might be even a trader) to teleport to another city. The military unit will be teleported too. That might solve my army supply unit problem lol

[Magil]

Tom Chick from QuarterToThree - famous for his review of Civ V which is closer to the general view of it on this forum than any other professional review I've seen - has produced his Civ VI review: http://www.quartertothree.com/fp/2016/11...ization-v/. (Delayed so long as he no longer gets press copies of games sent to him after certain past reviews, and because he likes to play games through several times before writing his reviews.)

Some good points; well worth a read if you've lost all faith in games reviewers.

While I actually agree with some of what he's saying, it reads way too whiny to me. Complaining over small, stupid things and ignoring the bigger picture for it. And while I don't care for 1UPT, this guy's hatred for it is on a whole different level.

Edit: To clarify, there are a few points where the reviewer describes a system, declares it "bad", and then doesn't really explain why. Like, yeah, we who play the game know why diplomacy is bad, but you have to actually explain that in a review, or else it just comes off as a whiny, uninformed opinion (nothing there except a brief aside about a seemingly random war declaration). It states espionage is a "whiff" but doesn't mention it at all for the rest of the review. Most of the review is of that nature, or complaining about one-unit-per-tile over and over and over again.

[haphazard1]

I really hope the "ran out of time" theory is correct, and a lot of these issues get fixed, balance polished, etc. I never really connected with Civ V, but this one feels like there is a good game in there somewhere trying to get out. But there are so many issues right now. I am thinking this one goes on the shelf until we see some patches and fixes, then I will give it another try.

Another item for the "how could this not be spotted and fixed in testing?" list: map pins. I like to stick them on the map to remind myself of things -- a nice city site, one of those hard to see tribal villages, etc. Once I take care of that item, I delete it. But I keep finding pins have lost their labels (the list now shows them as "unnamed" or "unlabel pin #N"), or far worse  switched labels with other pins. My barb encampment pin now has the text from my marble city pin, which has a tribal village text reminder, which has an iron city note, etc. Come on, Firaxis! How hard is it to stick a static piece of text on a map pin? It sure looks like an elementary coding error, mis-indexing into the list of pins -- how do you not spot and fix something like that?

If it was just one thing, I would shrug and say it is just the nature of software bugs. Been there, done that myself, it happens. But there are so many little things like this in the game that I have to suspect serious methodology issues with the entire QA process.

[Rowain]

Another item for the "how could this not be spotted and fixed in testing?" list: map pins. I like to stick them on the map to remind myself of things -- a nice city site, one of those hard to see tribal villages, etc. Once I take care of that item, I delete it. But I keep finding pins have lost their labels (the list now shows them as "unnamed" or "unlabel pin #N"), or far worse  switched labels with other pins. My barb encampment pin now has the text from my marble city pin, which has a tribal village text reminder, which has an iron city note, etc. Come on, Firaxis! How hard is it to stick a static piece of text on a map pin? It sure looks like an elementary coding error, mis-indexing into the list of pins -- how do you not spot and fix something like that?

Perhaps because that's not a easily reproduced Bug? I have used pins in my 3 games and so far not seen this happening. Could be that you made more pins then the Devs planned for?

OTOH I have seen some strange behaviour of the UI/notifications if I play a long session. Once I save, close, restart and load everything is normal again.

[Brian Shanahan]

Tom Chick from QuarterToThree - famous for his review of Civ V which is closer to the general view of it on this forum than any other professional review I've seen - has produced his Civ VI review: http://www.quartertothree.com/fp/2016/11...ization-v/. (Delayed so long as he no longer gets press copies of games sent to him after certain past reviews, and because he likes to play games through several times before writing his reviews.)

Some good points; well worth a read if you've lost all faith in games reviewers.

While I actually agree with some of what he's saying, it reads way too whiny to me. Complaining over small, stupid things and ignoring the bigger picture for it. And while I don't care for 1UPT, this guy's hatred for it is on a whole different level.

Edit: To clarify, there are a few points where the reviewer describes a system, declares it "bad", and then doesn't really explain why. Like, yeah, we who play the game know why diplomacy is bad, but you have to actually explain that in a review, or else it just comes off as a whiny, uninformed opinion (nothing there except a brief aside about a seemingly random war declaration). It states espionage is a "whiff" but doesn't mention it at all for the rest of the review. Most of the review is of that nature, or complaining about one-unit-per-tile over and over and over again.

Most of the problems that Chick has outlined fall into two major categories, e.g. 1UPT breaking the game or AI not being able to play the game, or "we didn't test this, ah sure it'll be all right", e.g. scaling issues with districts, pins not working, AIs only being coded for religious victory. Honestly the game at the moment looks to be a mess, and it's the kind of mess that doesn't get addressed until the first expansion, if ever.