Civ 6 Release and Update Discussion Thread

[Hail]

Basically, I think what CIV AIs need is a final boss, as in one or two opposing AIs who can pose a threat in the late game. I've played about 5 games of Civ 6 now, and not actually finished any of them because I have either been defeated early on, or I've got so far ahead that it becomes pointless to continue. That needs AIs Civs who can snowball like the player, through expansion or conquering their neighbours. Not all of them, every game, but hopefully at least one.

the AI is incompetent at snowballing. more so, it seems to always place its districts in shitty locations necessitating constant city razing.
this behavior tree bs is actually hurting the game. civ2's AI also is very dumb, but it did stupid things much faster.

One issue with the AI is that it is unable to achieve anything than religious victory. I assume that is a bug that got introduced when creating the Religious Combat Scenario. Seems for that scenario everything but religious is deactivated and probably someone changed a wrong file, leaving the AI with only religious victory for the whole game.

Yeah I've read that elsewhere, that there's some obvious holes in the AI with victory condition checks.  

And this is the kind of stuff that makes me think there was no testing done of the game, at the very least in the final few gos to release form. A minimally competent testing regime would have picked up a gameplay issue that is akin to an FPS AI not shooting back at the player avatar, or a truck racing AI that doesn't start driving at go.

If the company can let something this big slip through the process, then I have little hope of a competent fix to the issues plaguing the game as it stands.

the AI in civ is not what sells the game. the only gripe I have with the AI is the turn length. stupid things should be done fast.

[Brian Shanahan]

the AI in civ is not what sells the game. the only gripe I have with the AI is the turn length. stupid things should be done fast.

But don't you think that firaxis could at least maintain AI at Civ 4 levels? Frankly if I were masochistic enough to buy either game, I don't think it'd take me more than a few months to beat deity in either 5 or 6.

[fluffyflyingpig]

...you only worked on maps so I think Brain would be able to grind you down if he tries.

I worked exclusively on design my first 1.5 years on Civ6. When it came time for the map work, then all of my work time was taken up by that, because of how very much work was done redesigning the map generation system from the ground up.

You guys are operating off few facts and lots of conjecture, and there are *many* things that you are guessing wrong.


Having been on the inside for five but now the outside for six, I am in much the same position that Sulla was for five. I don't know what's gone on behind the scenes with six, but I do know enough not to make assumptions. The best thing to do is focus on the current state of Civ6. Those are the facts that we can all see and are in best position to debate. The hows and whys may be interesting fodder for conjecture, but we should all keep in mind that that is what it is, and not grow too certain about what we THINK we know, because it's quite easy to guess things wrong.


- Sirian

The current state is rather underwhelming.  UI is bad, AI is bad, maps are limited and kinda wonky. 

Map changes are really puzzling after all the work already put into maps for civ5.  Its almost like they have DLC map packs planned!  

[yuris125]

But don't you think that firaxis could at least maintain AI at Civ 4 levels?

Nope. Because 1upt requires AI to behave completely differently than in Civ4

Frankly if I were masochistic enough to buy either game, I don't think it'd take me more than a few months to beat deity in either 5 or 6.

No doubt. I won 5 on deity, and considering how easy 6 is on immortal, deity should be very beatable there as well. I never beat BtS above emperor

[mackoti]

what is wrong with this screenshot?
1. no harbor (+1 tr) in Cairo.
2. no commercial district (+1 tr & GM points & cd buildings) in Cairo.
3. too much food & too little cogs.
4. campuses and GS suck.
5. the holy district tile must have been reserved for an aqueduct.
6. so much accumilated faith. wow. maybe switch into Theocracy and buy some units? btw Theocracy and buying land units with faith is OP imho.
7. plan to build the Eiffel Tower with 47.5 cogs per turn. lol. the Eiffel Tower is 2100 cogs on std speed.
8. the entertainment district should have been build earlier.
9. a lot of gold... waiting for the Big Ben?
10. I see little point in theatre districts excluding the tourism VC. on second thought, is it profitable to build at least one TD for the archeological museum to spam archeologists to exchange relics for gold and/or cities from the AI. hm....

btw, RPS put up an article about Call to Power (What Civ VI Could Learn From Civilization: Call To Power).
worth a read if you have never played Call to Power.

As single player CTP was prety weak(because the AI's werent that good,still single player was very nice),but MP , that was extraordinary, I cant  compare with any games I played, civ4 is comming on second place, but still CTP1 was way better and you had so many option advancing too fast on techs is not a problem in MP as you and your oponent keep in check .But still who doesnt like the big armies(you have 9 units stack, but you build msny of them), and the strategic depth is huge as having key position is huge.Is realy bad no one had the vision to carry on on this huge game.

[mackoti]

Well if there is a worthy oponent, i could play a gam MP game over gmail, and i could report.I played some this year but my oponents were a litle bit to weak and then the game is no fun, to report, oh how i miss university.

[Hail]

what is wrong with this screenshot?
1. no harbor (+1 tr) in Cairo.
2. no commercial district (+1 tr & GM points & cd buildings) in Cairo.
3. too much food & too little cogs.
4. campuses and GS suck.
5. the holy district tile must have been reserved for an aqueduct.
6. so much accumilated faith. wow. maybe switch into Theocracy and buy some units? btw Theocracy and buying land units with faith is OP imho.
7. plan to build the Eiffel Tower with 47.5 cogs per turn. lol. the Eiffel Tower is 2100 cogs on std speed.
8. the entertainment district should have been build earlier.
9. a lot of gold... waiting for the Big Ben?
10. I see little point in theatre districts excluding the tourism VC. on second thought, is it profitable to build at least one TD for the archeological museum to spam archeologists to exchange relics for gold and/or cities from the AI. hm....

btw, RPS put up an article about Call to Power (What Civ VI Could Learn From Civilization: Call To Power).
worth a read if you have never played Call to Power.

Thanks for the questions. They're all viable, but this was taken from a Succession game I am running with my brother that we started on the day of release.
So the short answer to all of your questions is that we didn't know any better and are still figuring things out.

Longer answer:
Eiffel Tower got built without any problem though, we have been in Theology for quite some time, missed Big Ben and still can not decide on a Victory Condition. An Aqueduct is acutally running to the Oasis north of Cairo. The lack of hammers comes from the poor terrain, but we could have made more use of Trade Routes sooner. This is on King difficulty and we're cruising along to a win right now.

forest and lumbermill plain (terrain type) tiles, especially the riverside ones.

the AI in civ is not what sells the game. the only gripe I have with the AI is the turn length. stupid things should be done fast.

But don't you think that firaxis could at least maintain AI at Civ 4 levels? Frankly if I were masochistic enough to buy either game, I don't think it'd take me more than a few months to beat deity in either 5 or 6.

it's capitalism at its finest: the focus on short-term gain. firaxis could have developed an AI framework at least a decade ago, but they chose to hire different devs to code an AI for each civ iteration.

[MJW (ya that one)]

...you only worked on maps so I think Brain would be able to grind you down if he tries.

I worked exclusively on design my first 1.5 years on Civ6. When it came time for the map work, then all of my work time was taken up by that, because of how very much work was done redesigning the map generation system from the ground up.

You guys are operating off few facts and lots of conjecture, and there are *many* things that you are guessing wrong.


Having been on the inside for five but now the outside for six, I am in much the same position that Sulla was for five. I don't know what's gone on behind the scenes with six, but I do know enough not to make assumptions. The best thing to do is focus on the current state of Civ6. Those are the facts that we can all see and are in best position to debate. The hows and whys may be interesting fodder for conjecture, but we should all keep in mind that that is what it is, and not grow too certain about what we THINK we know, because it's quite easy to guess things wrong.


- Sirian

  The Frankenstein test groups members are the same so I'm not guessing. Unless you want to defend WPC.

[Brian Shanahan]

But don't you think that firaxis could at least maintain AI at Civ 4 levels?

Nope. Because 1upt requires AI to behave completely differently than in Civ4

So what? If something is hard to do, half arse it?

[T-hawk]

So what? If something is hard to do, half arse it?

Well, yes. Perfect is the enemy of the good enough. Shipping is a feature, your product must have it. Civ 5's AI is good-enough for at least half its audience.