Plants vs Zombies: Heroes

[SevenSpirits]

This is a game I've been working on for the past month. (To be clear, many other people have been working on this for years. I get next to no credit for the game as it stands today.) It's a digital CCG in the same vein as Hearthstone. I think it's quite good! One of the interesting things about it is that it's asymmetrical - the turn structure is:
1) Both players get one more mana than last turn, and draw a card
2) Zombie player plays guys
3) Plant player plays guys and tricks
4) Zombie player plays tricks
5) Combat! (Resolves automatically)

Anyway, it's now available worldwide, albeit only for mobile devices (android/ios). IMO there's a lot of good gameplay that can be had for free, so I encourage you to try it if you like that sort of game.

If you are interested but would only want to play it on PC, personally I've been successful playing it on Leapdroid (an android VM). (Just had to change two options in the Leapdroid default setup: Graphics Rendering mode to OpenGL, and swap the screen dimensions so it's laid out vertically.) If any of you try it out, let me know what you think.

P.S. I'm not speaking in any official capacity here in case that's not obvious.

Link: http://www.pvzheroes.com/

[sunrise089]

Is there a referral link or any way to support you specifically here Seven?

[SevenSpirits]

Nope! Just try it out.

[Cheater Hater]

Well, I finally got a tablet (the Kindle Fire was extremely cheap on Cyber Monday), and the first thing I put on it (after getting the Google Play Store on it) was PvZ Heroes.  I've been playing it a decent amount over the past two days, and here are my thoughts so far:

Good:
* I like the asymmetric gameplay so far--having distinctly different sides is a nice way to avoid having to balance first-player advantage.  The layout of the turn is interesting too; the only thing I might change is letting zombies play tricks in their first phase--I get it helps new CCG players not use removal before stuff is played (especially when everything has haste in a way), but it feels bad when you play the draw spell and get the creatures you need to block.  I'm also worried that asymmetric gameplay will lead to long queue times--I got a popup early on saying Zombies have shorter queue times; is that dynamic or based on trends (since players get plants by default/they're the "good guys")
* The shield system is nice, especially if I get good enough to know every hero's powers.  I feel like 1-3 slots per hit might be a little too much variance, but as I've said in other CCG discussions, the variance has to go somewhere
* Getting to see redraws immediately is an interesting design choice; presumably it'll become more important once the cards in my decks become more distinct (and I'm not just redrawing for curve).

Neutral:
* What's going on with the currency systems?  There are two of them (not counting the crafting), and it's confusing.  First, the "H" currency gets me only basic cards--what happens if I get them all (as it doesn't appear I can recycle/disenchant them)?  Then the gems get me premium cards, but in a million different ways (making me want to save up for the best-value packs).
* Speaking of quests, it feels overwhelming how many there are--apparently I get one every three hours (which makes me feel bad when I leave one undone, or have the default ones remaining), each new hero has a chain, the SP campaigns have rewards, and ranking up in MP gives a bunch as well.  This is probably just a symptom of the mobile environment--I haven't started PvZ 2 yet, but it might be similar.
* The starting deck design seems weird--I can understand why every "color" starts with a playset of 1 mana 1/1's (even if it seems like lazy design in some ways), but why are there almost no expensive cards?  Heck, even the sunflower ramp deck has a ton of 1/1's and other cheap cards.
* Is there an Arena analog yet?  I don't see a spot for it on the main menu (and it isn't appealing for the casual audience), but most off these CCGs do in some form.  Relatedly, is there high-level play beyond ranked yet, and does Popcap/EA want to pursue that?

Bad (at least for now):
* The animations take so darn long--I know, Hearthstone/casual appeal, but they seem longer here (maybe because 4-ofs mean they're more repetitive).  In addition, I wish there was a performance toggle so it worked better on my Fire (though I haven't noticed slowdown recently; maybe it was related to Google Play acting up before I updated it?)
* What the heck is going on with the hero distribution?  First of all, it feels like it's taking way too long to get heroes; it'll easily be over 50 games before I get all the starter heroes, assuming the final Zombie is similar to the final Plant (and that takes up a quest slot in the meantime).  Second, correct me if I'm wrong, but I have to open the other 14 heroes in (premium) packs?  What the heck?  Yes, each hero has cool superpowers (and a questline full of gems/cards, presumably), but if I'm not mistaken, the other 7 heroes will hold the remaining color pairs, and holding them hostage seems like an awful idea.  I'll give it the benefit of the doubt since I haven't unlocked the starting heroes yet (maybe more quests open up, or they're easy to craft), but this feels like it might be a dealbreaker.

I'm sure I'll have more later, but this is it for now.

Edit: A couple more things:
* Strikethrough seems overpowered and/or undercosted. At these costs, it should either be "hits one behind" (to not completely counter anything with Team-up) or pure Trample (only deals damage equal to its power), though the latter would obviously be underpowered at these costs.
* Plants need more counters to Gravestone, as the swings are so large (*cough* the Ball Lightning *cough*). I'm assuming there's something in the premium set at least, but if half the zombies in some colors are going to have Gravestone, there should be something in the basic set (though I'm not sure what--the simple Gravebuster (destroy target Gravestone) is too conditional for the basic set, but maybe an understatted plant can do it to a Gravestone in its lane?
* Overall in my limited experience Zombies seem to be better than Plants overall, mostly due to starting with better-statted minions (notably the 1/1 Anti-Hero 3 for 1 is so much better than all the vanillas), the lack of counters to Gravestone (especially when you get it for free, like on the 2/4 Deadly for 3), and the late trick window combined with the good tricks (all the moves and extra attacks Super Brainz gets makes him easily the best hero I have so far).

[SevenSpirits]

Thanks, good feedback, I'm passing it on.

[Cheater Hater]

Thanks for responding, even though I know you can't respond to much, like the possible new features or monetization stuff (though it could always be worse--glares at PvZ2's fake difficulty pushing you to premium purchases and/or wasting coins). I wish I got a clarification about the heroes though--it feels like the "intended" path is buying the hero packs that occasionally pop up in the store, or just waiting until the natural power of Super Brainz and Green Shadow plus basic cards (and premium cards from quests) paired with my natural CCG skill from other games stop being good enough to progress in SP and/or MP.

A couple more things while I'm here:
* A possible bug: I was looking at the store when the new quest timer hit zero, and it reset without giving me a quest. The quest did show up after I left and came back to the app, but I'm not sure if that's a bug or expected behavior.
* Another visual bug: when an opponent dies to something doing multiple attacks at once (a Threeshooter, or a Team-up lane where both things have power), the health of the opponent in the death cutscene isn't 0.
* Speaking of Team-up, the behavior is strangely inconsistent: each attack is separate for the purposes of Armored, but they're grouped together as one attack for the shield meter, and for the purpose of continuing to the hero. One I haven't had come up yet is Team-ups facing each other--as an example, if two Shroom for Twos face each other, will only the front ones die or will both die? I'm guessing the latter since it that would be consistent with creature->hero, but I'm not sure.
* Spudow's quest line is weird--it asks me to boost plants with Berry Angry, but the only one I've gotten was in a pack. Are heroes going to routinely give me quests based on (basic) cards I might not have yet (presumably I would have gotten Berry Angry in my batch of starter Kaboom cards if I chose Spudow over Solar Flare?)?

[SevenSpirits]

I feel like there are a few things I can answer in a simple and straightforward enough way that it's not a problem. But I'm going to avoid anything that a random experienced player on the internet couldn't answer - sorry. (As much as I like to talk about this stuff, the game is a team effort and I respect the team and do not wish to unilaterally make decisions about communication. I do appreciate hearing your take on it very much though.)

Team-Up: Yes, armor and the super-block meter work differently. Team-Ups can't face each other because there is no zombie Team-Up, so that's a moot point.

Hero Quests: Yes, some of the hero quests ask you to play a basic card (like Berry Angry) that not everyone is guaranteed to have yet. (Though, everyone is guaranteed to get it in a relatively low number of games since it comes in basic packs, which give you a full set of 4x of every basic card over time.)

[Cheater Hater]

Okay hold on--event-only unique (as in new effects) cards that not only can you not get in packs, you can't craft? That is a deal-breaker, even more so than putting heroes in packs and not being able to craft them (as at the very least you can buy them stand-alone for an expensive price). The implicit rule of CCGs is that if you have infinite resources you can get every card (or at least every unique card for gameplay purposes) and this violates this badly. It can be fine if the cards are bad (ideally strictly worse than existing cards), but not only has Re-Gifting Zombie's effect been playable in other games (though I don't know what happens when you get an empty library--is it damage, shield breaking, an instant loss, or something else?), Pear Cub certainly seems playable.

[SevenSpirits]

Hm, I like them.

* You get them for free if you play enough.
* You can buy them for gems immediately.
* They become craftable on a time delay. (October cards just became craftable last week.)

[Cheater Hater]

Hm, I like them.

* You get them for free if you play enough.
* You can buy them for gems immediately.
* They become craftable on a time delay. (October cards just became craftable last week.)

I mean, I like the idea (especially since it means there's a reason to grind a little once you have all the basic cards, even in SP), I just don't like the have vs have-not relationship. It's good to know they become craftable eventually (again, something that wasn't clear), but I'm worried that if there's an actual competitive scene planned (beyond the top rank) one of these event cards could be meta-warping and not available. I also wonder what the theory behind the design of the ticket goals was--I had to stretch just to get the first card without a 10x boost, and while part of that is probably because it was only six days, having the first card be the most tickets seems weird, even from a monetization standpoint (give them the first one free, they like playing with it, they have a reason to play more to complete the playset.

In the last post, there was a rules question I think you missed--what happens when a player has an empty deck? Heck, I don't even see a library indicator on the screen--does that mean it isn't possible to deck yourself? (which is a strange decision)