Thanks for the link. Unfortunately that link times out for me as well, as does anything with seravy.x10.mx in it. Perhaps someone could attach a zip of version 3.01 to one of these messages or post it on reddit.
Meanwhile it was updated, try 3.01 instead of 3.0a?
Are you living in a country that censors the internet? Did you try with a proxy?
...actually, the forum doesn't seem to mind attaching the file so here you go.
So far I've noticed that the AI is much more competent (and deadly) in battle, with one exception. That one exception is a 6 Red, 6 White Warlord Lizardman wizard. For the longest time, he would almost exclusively spam Healing or Healing Charge in battle, and, very rarely, cast Shatter or Warp Creature. Very recently he started casting Doom Bolt sometimes too, so he musta just have gotten it. However, there's been no fire bolts, no fireballs, lightning bolts, etc. Note that the two wizards on Myrror with me are also Chaos users and freaking drown me in that stuff, so I suspect the problem might be that Healing and Healing Charge simply have a way too high of a priority. It's also possible that he just got insanely unlucky with his spells, but with 6 books I would expect him to at least have something to attack with, right?
(December 28th, 2016, 17:35)GermanJoey Wrote: Thanks Seravy, this is great.
So far I've noticed that the AI is much more competent (and deadly) in battle, with one exception. That one exception is a 6 Red, 6 White Warlord Lizardman wizard. For the longest time, he would almost exclusively spam Healing or Healing Charge in battle, and, very rarely, cast Shatter or Warp Creature. Very recently he started casting Doom Bolt sometimes too, so he musta just have gotten it. However, there's been no fire bolts, no fireballs, lightning bolts, etc. Note that the two wizards on Myrror with me are also Chaos users and freaking drown me in that stuff, so I suspect the problem might be that Healing and Healing Charge simply have a way too high of a priority. It's also possible that he just got insanely unlucky with his spells, but with 6 books I would expect him to at least have something to attack with, right?
I could put up a save, if it would help.
Yes, please give me a save. If you have one from the time just before/after the Doom Bolt, that's the best. I don't think it's possible to miss fire bolt, it's the first starting pick as far as I remember. Either the priority of healing is too high or it has a bug, gotta check it out.
Edit : I don't see any particular bug in the code. Priority of healing is calculated as "type C"+unit combat value/4+7 if it's a hero, capped at 66. For reference a halberdier is about 28 in unit combat value, a paladin is like 96. Maybe the cause of what you observed is the "type C"?
it's a 0/10/20/25/20/10 priority for "C" type while direct damage is 50/0/10/20/25/30 in "A" type so there are two columns (the AI having a little bit or much more weaker army, but not bad enough for the worst case scenario) where C ranks +10 higher.
A direct damage spell is +3 priority per damage dealt, except the first 3 points, it needs to do 6 damage to rank above healing a halberdier, which seems correct (5-8 heal vs 6 damage being even), but the battle situation can alter that by a few points in either direction.
Maybe assigning healing to the the "C" group is a mistake?
When else should the AI use it then? If winning, they don't need to, in this case direct damage or buffs to other units are better, losing units is affordable. If losing, it won't help unless the unit healed is super powerful - the unit combat value part takes care of that. And type "C" is the one that has highest weights in case of an even match.
Or maybe everything is correct, but it should be lower across the board? Like, adding a "-5" or "-10" to the end of the formula? Assuming X damage to an average enemy unit is superior than X healing to an own halberdier tier unit? I suppose if enemy armies mainly consist of units that are better than halberdiers - and why wouldn't they - this is correct?
Perhaps an additional priority boost on healing if the target is buffed by invulnerability? (other defenses are generally included in the unit value score but that one is not)
From a strategical point of view the AI should attack the regular (fantastic) units and heroes first, the tactical summons (like centaurs) are only temporarely. What do you think?
(December 29th, 2016, 11:59)vicwaberub Wrote: Thank you and best wishes for 2017!
From a strategical point of view the AI should attack the regular (fantastic) units and heroes first, the tactical summons (like centaurs) are only temporarely. What do you think?
The priority to target combat summons with attacks and spells is already lower than other identical units. Is it not working?
(December 28th, 2016, 17:35)GermanJoey Wrote: Thanks Seravy, this is great.
So far I've noticed that the AI is much more competent (and deadly) in battle, with one exception. That one exception is a 6 Red, 6 White Warlord Lizardman wizard. For the longest time, he would almost exclusively spam Healing or Healing Charge in battle, and, very rarely, cast Shatter or Warp Creature. Very recently he started casting Doom Bolt sometimes too, so he musta just have gotten it. However, there's been no fire bolts, no fireballs, lightning bolts, etc. Note that the two wizards on Myrror with me are also Chaos users and freaking drown me in that stuff, so I suspect the problem might be that Healing and Healing Charge simply have a way too high of a priority. It's also possible that he just got insanely unlucky with his spells, but with 6 books I would expect him to at least have something to attack with, right?
I could put up a save, if it would help.
Yes, please give me a save. If you have one from the time just before/after the Doom Bolt, that's the best. I don't think it's possible to miss fire bolt, it's the first starting pick as far as I remember. Either the priority of healing is too high or it has a bug, gotta check it out.
Edit : I don't see any particular bug in the code. Priority of healing is calculated as "type C"+unit combat value/4+7 if it's a hero, capped at 66. For reference a halberdier is about 28 in unit combat value, a paladin is like 96. Maybe the cause of what you observed is the "type C"?
it's a 0/10/20/25/20/10 priority for "C" type while direct damage is 50/0/10/20/25/30 in "A" type so there are two columns (the AI having a little bit or much more weaker army, but not bad enough for the worst case scenario) where C ranks +10 higher.
A direct damage spell is +3 priority per damage dealt, except the first 3 points, it needs to do 6 damage to rank above healing a halberdier, which seems correct (5-8 heal vs 6 damage being even), but the battle situation can alter that by a few points in either direction.
Maybe assigning healing to the the "C" group is a mistake?
When else should the AI use it then? If winning, they don't need to, in this case direct damage or buffs to other units are better, losing units is affordable. If losing, it won't help unless the unit healed is super powerful - the unit combat value part takes care of that. And type "C" is the one that has highest weights in case of an even match.
Or maybe everything is correct, but it should be lower across the board? Like, adding a "-5" or "-10" to the end of the formula? Assuming X damage to an average enemy unit is superior than X healing to an own halberdier tier unit? I suppose if enemy armies mainly consist of units that are better than halberdiers - and why wouldn't they - this is correct?
Perhaps an additional priority boost on healing if the target is buffed by invulnerability? (other defenses are generally included in the unit value score but that one is not)
I believe this save is from a bit before Doom Bolt.
IIRC, the times I thought it was really absurd that he kept casting heal was when he did it repeatedly on a single remaining javelineer or halberdier, while I would just sit there safely with some ammoless, mostly-dead nightmares spamming fairy dust, waiting for him to wear himself out... he had warlord and heroism on a lot of his troops (and endurance, etc), so perhaps their "type C" rating was quite high? What was silly was that if he had just cast a couple of firebolts or lit bolts to finish off my horses, he'd have won those battles easily... but instead he kept healing a unit that couldn't even attack me.
Boosting the heal rating if the target has invulnerability is a really good idea, if it's possible!
(December 30th, 2016, 01:02)GermanJoey Wrote: I believe this save is from a bit before Doom Bolt.
IIRC, the times I thought it was really absurd that he kept casting heal was when he did it repeatedly on a single remaining javelineer or halberdier, while I would just sit there safely with some ammoless, mostly-dead nightmares spamming fairy dust, waiting for him to wear himself out... he had warlord and heroism on a lot of his troops (and endurance, etc), so perhaps their "type C" rating was quite high? What was silly was that if he had just cast a couple of firebolts or lit bolts to finish off my horses, he'd have won those battles easily... but instead he kept healing a unit that couldn't even attack me.
Boosting the heal rating if the target has invulnerability is a really good idea, if it's possible!
Nightmares? That makes it even weirder. Those should gain a +10 priority on direct damage for their cost being over 200. Time to investigate!
Battle 1 : my magic spirit vs their hell hounds : used star fires x3
Battle 2 : my hero+nightmares stack vs single swordsmen : used fire bolt on hero
Battle 3 : my hero+nightmares stack vs 2 efreet 4 swordsmen : turn 1 dispel magic, efreet kills a hero with warp lightning. Turn 2 fire bolt on damaged Nightmare, it dies.
Battle 4 : my hero+nightmares stack vs single guardian spirit : used fire bolt on hero
Battle 5 : my garrison of spearmen, centaurs, etc vs attacking efreet, turtle javelineers, etc : Turn 1 Used Healing Charge on Efreet which I damaged with Ice Bolt - good move. Turn 2 : Same. Turn 3 : same. Turn 4 (webbed efreet instead this time) - healing on wounded Dragon Turtle. Turn 5 : same. Turtle double KO itself with my manticore, now I have nothing good left in battle, efreet is near max health. Healing won this battle for the AI. Turn 6 : Shatter on two of my spearmen - efreet finally decided to cast a spell. Turn 7 Efreet kills another unit with Warp Lightning, battle over, efreet wins.
Battle 6 : my hero+nightmares stack vs 7 hell hounds, 2 heroes. Turn 1 Fire bolted nightmare (no damage) and Ice bolted the usual hero. Turn 2 : Fire Bolted hero again, fled. Merlin casts Divine Order at this moment. Battle 7 : my hero+nightmares stack vs 2 hounds, 1 javelineer - turn 1 fire bolt, not on the wounded hero which could have been killed.
Battle 8 : 2 spearmen vs javelineer - turn 1 shatter on spearman. Turn 2 healing charge on javelineers. Turn 3 shatter on other spearmen, halberdier reaches and kills it. Still has 1 figure despite my 3 fairy dusts, thanks to healing.
Battle 9 : my hero+nightmares stack vs 3 turtles, 1 javelineer. Fire Bolt on a Nightmare - wounded hero not targeted again! Turn 2 Fire Bolt on another Nightmare.
Battle 10 : finally killed wounded hero with fire bolt on turn 2. Turn 1 was dispel magic.
Battle 11 : Dispel Magic, finally removing spell lock. Lightning Bolt on a hero twice.
Battle 12 : My 9 nightmares vs 1 efreet 8 others : used some buffs (heroism,ew) and many heals. Considering the 25% increased cost of direct damage and my superior army that would take a lot of those to kill, this was a good choice.
There wasn't a single battle where the AI used healing wrong. It's worth noting that Divine Order reduces the priority of using direct damage spells by 6, because it increases their cost by 25%.
Hmmm, were you fighting Sss'ra? (the yellow wizard) He was the only one I was noticing the odd behavior. Maybe it was just a few goofy battles, and my memory is biased because of the sheer amount of times he cast it in those fights? =/ Sorry I didn't document this any better, and thanks for checking it out.
(December 30th, 2016, 03:01)GermanJoey Wrote: Hmmm, were you fighting Sss'ra? (the yellow wizard) He was the only one I was noticing the odd behavior. Maybe it was just a few goofy battles, and my memory is biased because of the sheer amount of times he cast it in those fights? =/ Sorry I didn't document this any better, and thanks for checking it out.
Yes, I was.
Maybe there were multiple copies of Divine Order in effect in your game? It stacks, both the cost increase on direct damage, and the priority decrease for the AI. Tho in this case you should have seen lots of unit enchantments, not healing.
Caster 3.01.zip (Size: 4.98 MB / Downloads: 7)
