(January 11th, 2017, 00:21)Lewwyn Wrote: So, I'm not really sure. Everyone is feeling pretty null for me right now. Maybe slight town lean on novice for lighthearted town. Maybe scum lean on Jabbz for a confusing and forced opening. I agree that he's being more reasonable now, but I don't like pre-planned joke stuff and lean scum on that type of gambit.
For the moment, Jabbz
Eh, as good a reason as any for day one. I've yet to find someone scummy enough to lodge a real vote. Mine on novice is not to be taken seriously, and is unlikely to remain on him to EOD, unless he does something odd.
Strange post, simply agreeing that Lewwyn's vote is reasonable. Trying to friendzone the vote away? Pretty thin, I admit, but I'm not sure I would respond like that as town.
I didn't say it was reasonable. I said within the context of day one, it is as good as any other reason. Further, it is in the context of him saying its only a slight lean, but that he doesn't have a better option. Hell, I ended up voting Dp for the same reason later on. I think you are misinterpreting the intent of my post.
Further, I would say that in my last game, and continuing in this game, I'm doing my best to avoid the "persecuted Jabbz complex" that everyone knows and loves so much. I acknowledged his vote, had already responded to his core argument, and moved on. Had he pushed it, I would have done more, but it didn't further towns ends to start bickering or getting paranoid over it.
(January 12th, 2017, 13:00)novice Wrote: I'm actually rereading, not ISOing Jabbz, but his posts are the ones catching my eye.
(January 10th, 2017, 23:13)Jabbz Wrote: What? Scum typically has their own thread, conniving to cross post wouldn't be challenging in the least... Beside that however, I don't know about other players, but when I played wolf in the past I didn't constantly refer to the wolf QT. I felt doing so would show me to be scum really quickly. I can't imagine most of the rest of the players in this game don't view it the same. That kind of kills your whole idea of "prompted by the rest of their team" bit.
I don't think this means they are scum, or that you are, I just think it's a terrible place to stake a flag for their towniness, as it's basically a null tell.
(January 11th, 2017, 02:32)Jabbz Wrote:
(January 11th, 2017, 01:29)Dp101 Wrote:
(January 11th, 2017, 01:24)AdrienIer Wrote: Dp for terrible logic.
Oh what I would give for 2 more hours of sleep
So even though I recognised that I was wrong and went back on my read, I still get voted for it? Like, are you just assuming that scum are the only people who will ever make bad reads or something? Me being an idiot is an integral part of my town game, and I really don't like votes that are just because someone is bad. My vote is not moving.
The problem is that you didn't come to that recognition on your own, but had it pointed out to you. Yes, it's nice that you are able to recognize your mistakes, but you have to realize that this is something scum would do. Reach for an argument, get their hand slapped, then try to shake it off. The getting "confused" when someone calls it fishy just makes it smell worse.
Why is Dp's mistake suddenly a problem now that Adrien has voted Dp for it?
Just because I noted the issue there doesn't equate to that being the first time I had an issue with it.
First I acknowledged his play was a bit odd, but that his response to pressure was good.
(January 10th, 2017, 19:04)Jabbz Wrote: After an EXHAUSTING re-read of the ENTIRE thread, I noted a few points I missed or wanted to hit on.
(January 10th, 2017, 13:38)Dp101 Wrote: Hi everyone! Gazglum, I appreciate your fine memory but I must also cling to tradition, in my case the time-honed strategy of "everyone who votes me is mafia".
This strikes me as somewhat towny. Dp does have, from what I remember, a bit of a predilection for omgus votes, His response to it later also felt genuine, and un-pressured to me.
But then just a few posts later, his next post is just bad.
(January 10th, 2017, 23:13)Jabbz Wrote:
(January 10th, 2017, 21:00)Dp101 Wrote: I just think that two people posting moderately lengthy and detailed posts on the same set of posts is more likely to come from town than mafia at this point, because firstly, they posted in the same minute so it can't have been scum sheeping town, secondly, because from my own experiences scumming here w/w x-posts tend to be short and prompted from the rest of their team, so the length puts me off, and lastly posts as similar as theirs must come from similar mindsets, which makes it more likely that they are the same alignment, and given that there are only 2 scum in the game it is very unlikely that those two would also be the members of a mindmeld. Hope this clears up what I was thinking.
What? Scum typically has their own thread, conniving to cross post wouldn't be challenging in the least... Beside that however, I don't know about other players, but when I played wolf in the past I didn't constantly refer to the wolf QT. I felt doing so would show me to be scum really quickly. I can't imagine most of the rest of the players in this game don't view it the same. That kind of kills your whole idea of "prompted by the rest of their team" bit.
I don't think this means they are scum, or that you are, I just think it's a terrible place to stake a flag for their towniness, as it's basically a null tell.
The justification he throws out here doesn't make sense. The idea that somehow its harder for scum to do something that can be planned in a qt than it is for town is just absurd. So I call him out on that. Still though, I'm not calling him scummy or voting for him, I just explain I find his argument unpersuasive.
A few posts later though, we get this.
(January 11th, 2017, 01:29)Dp101 Wrote: So even though I recognised that I was wrong and went back on my read, I still get voted for it? Like, are you just assuming that scum are the only people who will ever make bad reads or something? Me being an idiot is an integral part of my town game, and I really don't like votes that are just because someone is bad. My vote is not moving.
The unpressured Dp is gone here. He acts like his back is up against a wall here, and such a dramatic shift in tone bothered me. Note however, I still didn't vote against him, because at the time I was looking at each post individually.
My actual vote doesn't come until 41 posts later when I read through the entire thread again and see a trend I find disturbing, so I vote for him.
(January 11th, 2017, 15:21)Jabbz Wrote:
So last quarter of the first day. I don't have anything in the way of solid town leans at this point, but then again I also lack solid scum leans. On the slightly townish side however, I have:
Gazglum.He seems to be engaged in active wolf hunting, exploring multiple ideas and not tunneling. His arguments all seem to come across as being natural instead of forced. This is tempered with the knowledge that I'm not sure I would recognize wolf Gaz if he put a knife in my chest. He always comes across towny to me.
Novice. His response to my vote against him felt natural, and I particularly liked his defense of Winston's potential intentions.
(January 10th, 2017, 16:59)novice Wrote: Also the first part is unfair to Winston (what has he got to do with it?) but obviously you still have bad feelings about that game so we don't have to talk about it.
No one would have noticed or commented on him not defending Winston under these circumstances. Seeking to reduce strife among the thread is not exactly a wolf tactic.
On my more scummy side I have Dp101. Taken individually his posts don't seem too bad, just a bit bull in a china shopish if you will. Taken collectively however, it seems like he is putting a bunch of threads out there and seeing if anyone trips on them. Once they are noticed however, he's pulling them back, and that seems bad to me.
I also have Lewwyn leaning slightly scum, though less so than Dp. He jumps on my "pre-planned joke stuff/gambit" as a reason to paint me scummy enough to vote for, while ignoring other people also behaving in a light hearted manner. A lot of other people also jumped on me for my first posts initially, which was fine, but then when an explanation was provided they were cool with it. Lewwyn still seems to be on the offensive for it, though he does come off of it, but only to call Gaz scum. Given that I view Gaz's engagement this round as productive and towny, that combination makes me read him rather badly.
I'd also like to point out, that by looking at post counts we have a lurker. I'd like Qg to explain why he only has half as many posts as our next lowest poster. He might be trying to slink his way to a scum win....
Because my bad jokes are being taken seriously this round, please note the comment about Qg is indeed a joke.
Also that is not meant to imply in any way that Qg is scum, as I get that he's the moderator.
Also, please don't use this as a reason to vote against me.
All told, I think keeping my vote on Dp101 is a pretty safe bet for the moment. Going to lunch with the wife shortly, but I'll be back in a few hours.
I also note that I'm doing it for lack of better options, not because he's super scummy. I feel my vote on him was well explained and maybe you're not taking the timeline into consideration.
(January 12th, 2017, 14:35)novice Wrote:
(January 12th, 2017, 14:30)novice Wrote: I guess Jabbz and Winston are my new top suspects.
But I don't know. Gaz and Lew managed to go head to head in a manner where I now can't pick sides and just file them both away as town, but that's surely an unsound approach. Dp still seems town though.
So two town and 4 scum. We've got to talk to Qg about the balance on these things.
(January 12th, 2017, 17:29)Jabbz Wrote: I would say that in my last game, and continuing in this game, I'm doing my best to avoid the "persecuted Jabbz complex" that everyone knows and loves so much. I acknowledged his vote, had already responded to his core argument, and moved on. Had he pushed it, I would have done more, but it didn't further towns ends to start bickering or getting paranoid over it.
Sounds like an admirable endeavour.
Regarding Dp, explaining your progression on Dp, while interesting, is a bit beside the point, or at least beside my point.
What I'm questioning is why you changed your stance on one specific issue with Dp, namely the scumminess of his "mindmeld" theory, where you went from
(January 10th, 2017, 23:13)Jabbz Wrote: I don't think this means they are scum, or that you are, I just think it's a terrible place to stake a flag for their towniness, as it's basically a null tell.
to
(January 11th, 2017, 02:32)Jabbz Wrote: The problem is that you didn't come to that recognition on your own, but had it pointed out to you. Yes, it's nice that you are able to recognize your mistakes, but you have to realize that this is something scum would do. Reach for an argument, get their hand slapped, then try to shake it off. The getting "confused" when someone calls it fishy just makes it smell worse.
The only thing happening in between was villager AdrienIer voting Dp for his terrible logic.
If you thought Dps behaviour was so problematic, why didn't you say so prior to Adrien's vote?
I see that as the same thing. I'm not calling him scum, I'm legitimately trying to work with him. The first time I asked him, the one you partially quote above, he provided a pretty reasonable response, so it was good. I was hoping for a similar thing here. I didn't get it.
(January 12th, 2017, 20:40)Jabbz Wrote: I see that as the same thing. I'm not calling him scum, I'm legitimately trying to work with him. The first time I asked him, the one you partially quote above, he provided a pretty reasonable response, so it was good. I was hoping for a similar thing here. I didn't get it.
I don't follow. You changed your stance because of the responses he gave to you taking a stance? Not to be too belligerent, but can you spell that out a bit?
What was the response that caused you to suddenly see Dp's mistake as problematic?
I hope you stretched a bit before taking that many twists and turns. As I said above, what bothered me was the response he gave to my post. When he was questioned by me the first time, he gave a plausible explanation, and was cool under fire about it. The second time he was questioned by me, not so much. You're doing a lot of work here to make me look bad for what I admit out the game is only a slight scum lean. Supposing we're both alive in the morning, I suppose we can rehash it then. In the meantime, I'm off to bed. Gnight all.
(January 12th, 2017, 02:51)AdrienIer Wrote: Perhaps you've missed it (even though I thought it was clear) but my reread didn't make me suspect anyone more than Dp. Without any other lead I'm kind of stuck with a meh vote on Dp
That sucks for me. Must be worse for you with your head on the block :/ Gotta say, slight town lean for this.
Jabbz getting chummy at the deadline.
“The wind went mute and the trees in the forest stood still. It was time for the last tale.”
