WW 44: Battlestar Galactica

[novice]

I hope you stretched a bit before taking that many twists and turns. As I said above, what bothered me was the response he gave to my post. When he was questioned by me the first time, he gave a plausible explanation, and was cool under fire about it. The second time he was questioned by me, not so much. You're doing a lot of work here to make me look bad for what I admit out the game is only a slight scum lean. Supposing we're both alive in the morning, I suppose we can rehash it then. In the meantime, I'm off to bed. Gnight all.

Like I said, I still don't get it. When was the first time he was questioned by you, and what was his explanation then?
When was the second time he was questioned by you, and what was his explanation then?

Whether or not you concluded in a strong scum lean or a slight scum lean is not the point, I'm trying to see if your process was genuine.

And I'm not trying to make you look bad, I'm trying to get a better read on you. Help me out.

[novice]

Let's say you're town, Jabbz. In that case it's almost certainly Lewwyn + Gaz (from my perspective), which also makes sense for me intuitively, since I couldn't decide who to side with in their discussion. So I'm not tunneling on you as scum Jabbz, but I have been focussing on you, simply because I found things to investigate in your posts.

[Gazglum]

Vale Winston. May the quiet give you time to feel better. GG.

While Jabbz is taking a pounding out back, I'd like to start a different track with Lewwyn.

Rereading his posts, two things stood out to me. First, he was around at deadline (sorry again for misunderstanding you there), along with me, DP and Adrien. He had defended DP and Adrien, while claiming to be pushing me seriously as the wolf. But if he believed that, all he needed to do was to flip Adrien and DP onto me, and I would have hung. Adrien would have done it for self-preservation, so Lewwyn just needed to convince DP. But he didn't even try, he seemed pretty content to watch me orchestrate my evil master plan instead.

Second, his tone is just wrong.

Oh yeah, you're right.  Sorry just got caught up in my righteous fury.

Sorry Winston, this is the opposite of what I thought. Congrats you're not scummy.  

I get this was a joke, but it sums up his play perfectly. Lewwyn is playing with righteous fury, as if he was under attack all day, or everybody else was playing terribly. BUt almost nobody voted him, and my post against him was more rebuttal than attack. He's too jumpy and too ready to pick a fight.

[Gazglum]

Oh, and of course Winston's death - who benefits? Lewwyn was the top of his scummy list, and scum only have to get through one more day.

[Lewwyn]

Oh, and of course Winston's death - who benefits? Lewwyn was the top of his scummy list, and scum only have to get through one more day.

Seriously?

Winston was killed, Winston suspected Lewwyn, Lewwyn is scum.

That's your logic?

[Lewwyn]

So:

Rereading his posts, two things stood out to me. First, he was around at deadline (sorry again for misunderstanding you there), along with me, DP and Adrien. He had defended DP and Adrien, while claiming to be pushing me seriously as the wolf. But if he believed that, all he needed to do was to flip Adrien and DP onto me, and I would have hung. Adrien would have done it for self-preservation, so Lewwyn just needed to convince DP. But he didn't even try, he seemed pretty content to watch me orchestrate my evil master plan instead.

Yep, probably because I wasn't sure anymore.

Remember this?

Lewwyn, why did you drop Jabbz from consideration for your final vote? What changed since you voted him earlier?

WTF Man. Why do you think this is my final vote I didn't drop him at all!

Actually this makes me think your response to me is a little less scummy. If you honestly thought that was my last post.

My emphasis.

Lewwyn, I'm awake and I apologise. I misread your 'see you on the other side', and thought you were bowing out for the rest of the game day.

Your first response.

Lewwyn, I'm awake and I apologise. I misread your 'see you on the other side', and thought you were bowing out for the rest of the game day.

Hmmmm

My response.

If you notice after that point I didn't go after you anymore because I just wasn't sure what to do. It struck me that your attack on me, which I had found terrible and scummy, seemed much more in tune with village Gazglum. So I sort of lost a lot of steam.

I did make a mistake though at the end of that day. I should have changed my vote for Jabbz and tried to get traction on him instead.

Second, his tone is just wrong.

Oh yeah, you're right.  Sorry just got caught up in my righteous fury.

Sorry Winston, this is the opposite of what I thought. Congrats you're not scummy.  

I get this was a joke, but it sums up his play perfectly. Lewwyn is playing with righteous fury, as if he was under attack all day, or everybody else was playing terribly. BUt almost nobody voted him, and my post against him was more rebuttal than attack. He's too jumpy and too ready to pick a fight.

This is dumb. I was seriously riding my game high when this happened. I had just felt completely and wrongly attacked by you in a scummy (at the time it appeared to me due to the above misunderstanding) fashion. You say rebuttal, I say when you use the words lazy to describe my vote its an attack. So, I had just written out a stimulating post, I made a mistake reading Winston's post, DP corrected me and I sheepishly responded with my emotions astir.

[Gazglum]

Welcome, Lewwyn, to the Glum Inquisition.

Oh, and of course Winston's death - who benefits? Lewwyn was the top of his scummy list, and scum only have to get through one more day.

Seriously?

Winston was killed, Winston suspected Lewwyn, Lewwyn is scum.

That's your logic?

Of course it is, and it would be yours if the positions were reversed. Our Werewolf games are as predictable as Parliament in this regard - one side always says 'there is no meaning in the night kills' and the other side says there is, and the players will happily reverse their positions next go round.

Scum win this round if they get one townie to vote with them. SO if you are scum, you would definitely want to remove the guy it seems you will have least chance to sway.

Town Lewwyn should ask who else the kill might benefit, or at least say, "Yes, it looks bad, so it is probably a setup by You, Scumglum, so you could launch with this". Not just laugh it off, as if logic stops being logic if you put question mark after it.


Your second point, 'I sort of lost steam', and conceding that you should have pushed Jabbz, is classic Wolf. Your play isn't really defensible, so you give a quick mea culpa and try to move on. YOu didn't lose steam at all at deadline, you were having a grand old time, cracking jokes with Q and Adrien. It was fun. Surely amidst the bon-homie you could have remembered to push a suspect?

Now you vote Jabbz because Chummy is Scummy, which is exactly what you said about Winston yesterday before backing off. You're quipping, not hammering.

WHat do you think of me, Lewwyn? If I'm misguided town, you should be biting back your annoyance and demonstrating to me why Jabbz is scum. I'm serious, help me help you help the town, because me being on the wrong track is bad for everyone.

On the other hand, if you think I'm Scumglum making an opportunistic attack, you should turn it round on me. But instead you are just making excuses for your play.

How would you rank your suspicion list right now, towniest to scummiest? Why do you think Winston was killed? And what is the case against Jabbz, in a few dot points

[novice]

I do agree that Lewwyn channeling his righteous indignation fits with his scum MO, and that he could/should hunt more actively.

[Gazglum]

DP, I read back through your day, and there are an awful of town leans. Which makes me think of NOvice's point that 'I would NOT lynch someone' is a strong thing to say. You started by saying you had town leans on me, Winston, Novice. Then you pull Winston and NOvicec back to null. Then we get:

Sorry for not being in the thread that much, slept for 12 hours due to my own terrible cold. I agree that a lew-adrien team is not that unlikely, and Gaz is now, as always, top town. Winston, Novice get their minor townleans back, Jabbz is null. INB4 lynched for having similar opinions to others.

So Lewwyn and Adrien top suspects, followed by Jabbz.

And that post is particularly interseting, because having read the Lewwyn-Gazglum dispute, you said that I was 'Top Town'. Yet when Lewwyn comes back, you say:

I don't feel that either Gaz or you are the right choice after that exchange. It does make me feel that Gaz is slightly less solid town, but I don't think it rescues you from looking vaguly scummy either.

Which seems to be a shift of interpretation, after you had already praised me. You also repeat that Lewwyn feels scummy, which seems to cement his position as your second suspect.

But then we ride the Adrien-train towards the station and you get cold feet:

I'm feeling moderately uneasy with regards to my vote currently, but don't want to change due to self-pres. If anyone is wondering, it is AdrienIer's comment about how their D1 is always twice as hard as town that is pinging me as probably town.

Interseting. This is a total 180 on Adrien, and fair enough, on Day 1 there is little enough information that 180s are plausible. BUt presumably it puts Lewwyn from second to top place on your suspicion list. And that's lucky, because Winston is voting Lewwyn and I had attacked him too. So you could have sounded me out on a Lewwyn vote, because if we had both switched to him then you would probably have been safe in a tie-break, and if he switched back to you first, you and I could always go back to Adrien.

I understand that would have been dancing a little close to the flame. But you didn't even raise Lewwyn at deadline, when, according to your previous statements, he was now your only Scum lean and you thought you were on town.

Then after lynch, you say that you can't tell, its all a blur, you have no real leans. It feels like there is a logical disconnect here in your feelings on Lewwyn, he's gone from scummy to 'mildly suspicious', and you've put him back into the middle of the pack with everyone else.

TL:DR - your takes on me and Lewwyn both seem to fluctuate, but not obviously in response to anything, or not logically according to the timeline of the thread.

[Dp101]

So Dp101, where would your vote gone had you felt safe to move it?

Maybe you. Actually, it could have gone on anyone. You and Lew have seemed kinda weird/mildly suspicious, Novice I am bad at reading and thus don't trust my own town read on, and the dirt cast on Gaz by Lew makes him look slightly less clear. Really the only one I probably wouldn't have voted would have been Winston.

Anyone else think that this was scum Jabbz looking for who they should/shouldn't NK? I did at the time, and thought I would try as an experiment to deliberately only name one person as solid town to see if they would get NK'd. Originally I was going to vote Jabbz afterwards, but now I think that's a stupid idea and any mafia reading the thread might have decided based on this. Am I being paranoid, or does this sequence between us implicate Jabbz as part of the NK? I've thought myself in circles at this point and cannot decide.