DaveV talks like a pirate, me hearties!

[GermanJoey]

Lurkers are bored.

Moar war please.  

! ! !

Lots of land left to settle before I have to fight for expansion, the mapmaker must have gone too big. Who was that guy again?

*Not a complaint; I'm enjoying the map so far, and it's certainly given me a chance to utilize my EXP trait.

the size of the map was designed to the exact player-requested specifications. 

[DaveV]

A turn arrived! Time to shake loose the cobwebs. During last turn and this one, I've connected cotton, pearls, and gems. That's +3 happy for all my capped cities (+4 with a sea haven). Time to grow!



The capital is going to finish its settler and plow the doubled overflow hammers into another settler, but then it's growth time. You can see a galley waiting in Dead Mans Chest to pick up the settler. I'm hoping to drop him by Odio.

You can also see where I did a bit of extra exploration with my workboats.

jalepeno showed up with a trade connection, so I offered open borders.

[Mardoc]

Yay for happiness! Yay for the Ellimist war remaining cold, too.

So where are you thinking of putting OO? I think my vote would be the capital; it'll take a good bit of hammers to get a Temple and a bunch of missionaries built, so the religion should go somewhere with a lot of hammers and a desire to grow. I could see a case for any hammer-heavy city, though; Shoulder Parrot, Wooden Leg, Brace of Pistols all could be reasonable OO missionary training centers.

On a related note: maybe you should cancel some of the barely-started Monuments, like Black Spot and Grog? I suspect you can find something else vital to build there if you just move them up the priority list for missionaries a bit.

[DaveV]

First, let me say thanks for your questions and observations. I tend to get locked in on a strategy, and the nudge to reexamine things is much needed (even if it seems as though I usually ignore you and carry on with my original plans).

I think Grog needs to stay on its monument. If I remember to switch it to work the plains forest ( ), I can finish the monument in 9 turns, which is probably faster than I can build a temple and missionary and then move him there. Once the monument is complete, I can offer peace to Ellimist.

The Black Spot, on the other hand, probably can wait for a missionary. I suffer severely from sunk cost fallacy, but I think I can make myself write off those hammers ( ). Crow's Nest might be another good candidate for missionary instead of monument.

For OO city: I'd been planning on Brace of Pistols. The OO temple gives three things: +4 culture (including +2 for religion), ability to build missionaries, and two GP slots. I'm way late to the great person game, so I want the temple to go in a city with a good food surplus. The capital and Shoulder Parrot are good candidates also (despite the BTS players shuddering at the thought of turning a capital into a GP farm, and despite my having penciled in Shoulder Parrot for the Great Lighthouse). Wooden Leg is short on food, and wants to concentrate on commerce after Deruptus finishes. It's also a good candidate for a Siege Workshop. The only one of those cities that needs culture is Shoulder Parrot. Dead Mans Chest will also a good production city once I workshop the floodplains, but that's in the future. I'm kind of short of workers at the moment (my ded lurker hasn't been doing his job of chanting "build more workers!").

A lot will depend on where the missionary spawns.

[Mardoc]

First, let me say thanks for your questions and observations. I tend to get locked in on a strategy, and the nudge to reexamine things is much needed (even if it seems as though I usually ignore you and carry on with my original plans).

Yeah, I can do that too.  I'm quite aware that you have a better feel for all the factors since you're actually playing, no offense taken .

Although if Ellimist shows up with an invasion force in the next 5 turns, I might mention something about telling you so .

I think Grog needs to stay on its monument. If I remember to switch it to work the plains forest ( ), I can finish the monument in 9 turns, which is probably faster than I can build a temple and missionary and then move him there. Once the monument is complete, I can offer peace to Ellimist.

For example...didn't remember Grog was the border city.

The Black Spot, on the other hand, probably can wait for a missionary. I suffer severely from sunk cost fallacy, but I think I can make myself write off those hammers ( ). Crow's Nest might be another good candidate for missionary instead of monument.

Cool.  Even if it only saves 30 hammers/city, it's still some profit.  OO is useful enough that we'd probably want it anyway even if we built a monument, after all.

For OO city: I'd been planning on Brace of Pistols. The OO temple gives three things: +4 culture (including +2 for religion), ability to build missionaries, and two GP slots. I'm way late to the great person game, so I want the temple to go in a city with a good food surplus.

At the moment this is true.  Eventually it will also permit Cultists and the less useful units, so I wouldn't object if you wanted to build multiple temples.  

Also, I'm assuming you're in Religion?  Or will consider swapping to it in a future GA, when you also start with OO as a state religion?  Not like happiness is currently a limit, but you'll eventually want those bonus happiness from the temples.

The capital and Shoulder Parrot are good candidates also (despite the BTS players shuddering at the thought of turning a capital into a GP farm, and despite my having penciled in Shoulder Parrot for the Great Lighthouse).  Wooden Leg is short on food, and wants to concentrate on commerce after Deruptus finishes. It's also a good candidate for a Siege Workshop. The only one of those cities that needs culture is Shoulder Parrot. Dead Mans Chest will also a good production city once I workshop the floodplains, but that's in the future.

Ok, yes, we do absolutely need at least one Siege Workshop.  I would consider it urgent, too; the option to swap to total war mode will give me a lot of peace of mind.

I'm kind of short of workers at the moment (my ded lurker hasn't been doing his job of chanting "build more workers!").

Eh, you're Lanun.  Working coastline may not be optimal, but it's never going to be worthless.

Although, if you were going to catch up on workers, you probably should have done it before unlocking 3 more global happiness, not immediately after  

A lot will depend on where the missionary spawns.

Fair enough.

[DaveV]

And another turn rolls in. Time to answer some questions. But first, take out the garbage:



jalepeno re-offered open borders and I accepted. Time to get vision on his border city, because his power has taken an alarming jump:



At end of turn, the Zealot popped in a small and remote city. I think the RNG is trolling me.



Actually, that's not a terrible spot for an OO temple (other than being on the border with one of the best military civs in the game, of course). It has good food and decent production and has a lot of growth to do. Plan B would be to pick up the zealot with my galley, then I could spread the religion in either X Marks Spot or Shoulder Parrot the following turn.

For completeness, here's the south:

[Brian Shanahan]

If you just want to walk the Zealot to Shoulder Parrot, it'll take three turns to get there and spread. That'd be as quick, if not quicker than the galley.

I'm assuming Hook Hand is going to get a lot of sea tiles in the near future, pity the lake is badly situated.

[DaveV]

No, the galley is one turn quicker, because the missionary still has some movement on the second turn and can spread from aboard the galley. I'm leaning more and more towards the immediate spread in Crow's Nest and keeping the galley on its original course of doing some exploration through Swivel Gun.

Hook Hand will have five coast tiles plus the lake. Not great, but +6 production is still good. And, as I said before, the culture will be very helpful.

[Mardoc]

(other than being on the border with one of the best military civs in the game, of course)

 I still find myself disagreeing here.  At this point, 'best military civ in the game' is either a function of demographics, or a function of magical abilities.  Which both point to Ellimist's Balseraphs, not Dreylin.

No, the galley is one turn quicker, because the missionary still has some movement on the second turn and can spread from aboard the galley. I'm leaning more and more towards the immediate spread in Crow's Nest and keeping the galley on its original course of doing some exploration through Swivel Gun.

FWIW, I'm ok with this approach.  Getting started ASAP matters more than most other factors.  Religion spread is exponential but the initial bottleneck is a pain.  Culture on a border is a handy thing, too, especially since you seem disinclined to invade (although if I ever talk you around on that front, having a Zealot producer near the front lines is also handy ).

That is...assuming you're able to overcome that sunk cost objection, and immediately put the Sea Haven on hold for a good long while .  Saving time doesn't help if you spend the next four turns finishing up the current project.

Hook Hand will have five coast tiles plus the lake. Not great, but +6 production is still good. And, as I said before, the culture will be very helpful.

Agreed that 6 hpt isn't great but still worth having.  There's also value in preventing anyone else from having the wonder, and I think some GPP.  And, although we're not there yet, we're not super far away from Iron Working which will enable all our cities to get hammers from their water tiles.


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On a more general note, I see a lot of cities working on moderate to low priority infrastructure. Sea Havens, Lighthouses, Elder Council. They're not bad investments (except maybe the Elder Council) but I'm not sure they're the highest priority items right now either. Some things that I would rate highly:

Can I get you to establish some ferry services? The way this map is looking, Galleys are basically never going to obsolete. Fast, high cargo capacity, decent damage potential. In the short term we want them to speed up workers/settlers/garrisons/missionaries. In the longer term, we will absolutely need them for logistical support of any wars we fight.

I think we could use a few more warriors. Preferably grouped into fast response groups, maybe even embarked on galleys, plus a couple more in each city on the Balseraph front. We could also use some scouts, tripwire/border watchers, and some warriors ready to upgrade when the Siege Workshop comes in.

Can I get you to prebuild some workboats? Up til now, cities have pretty much had to build their own pirate harbors, but now we have a presence on all our border seas. Really want the settler you have almost done to have a Pirate Harbor the turn it's founded. This might help paper over the worker shortage, too

Basically I'm asking for some empire-wide flexibility.


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Another general question: What's the plan for the next five turns? Next fifteen? It kind of feels like you're drifting, just letting each city do its own thing, building whatever seems to be available. I'd much rather work backwards: pick a goal, and focus the empire on whatever is required to meet that goal. I see several possiblities:

1. REX! 10 more cities ASAP! This would require you start by scouting and dotmapping, then work backward to the logistics for garrisons, transport, settlers and workers and workboats. Could be a good option because we have so much resource-happiness and a lush map.
2. Tech beeline. I don't even know what you're researching next, let alone any sort of beeline. I don't like this one quite as much. Generally you want to get the tech to support your other plans, tech isn't a plan in itself.
3. War! Pick a target, scout them out, plan to invade when you hit chariots. Figure out the logistics: galleys, Siege Workshop location, prebuilding warriors and saving up the cash. I feel like we could hit someone with 20-30 chariots by T110, which would be enough to absorb a weak civ (Dreylin) or cripple a strong one (Ellimist, Jalepeno). I could see this also getting us 10 more cities pretty quickly, cities that don't have to start at size 1...
4. Specialize some cities. Pick a wonder and plot how to grab it. Make a military pump city. Get some more national wonders built. Pick out what you're *not* going to build in each city and plan the build order. Build the workers needed to make sure they're only working improved tiles (I didn't realize til just now how many unimproved forest tiles we're working...at least get Archery and mills if you're not going to chop them into mines.

[Brian Shanahan]

I'm with Mardoc on the galleys, given the map you have, they'll be a great presence, load up a few units, drop on a city, raze, run away. Rinse and repeat.

Oh and route four probably should be done no matter what plan you're gunning for. A city that doing nothing but gunning out units is handy in any version of Civ 4, but with the slavery nerf in EitB it is imperative really to have one. Brace of Pistols looks a good candidate for that. Regarding a GP city I'm thinking Dead Mans Chest, and either the capital or Hook Hands can do wonder duty if you've a want for a few. Secondary unit producers are probably Crow's Nest and Shoulder Parrot.