WW 45: I'm an Illegal Alien

[Psillycyber]

Something I don't understand: Rowain criticizes Dp101 for helping scum figure out whom to nominate, and then Jabbz steps in to defend Dp101 and attack Rowain for reaching, and Rowain swings back at Jabbz with accusing words that insinuate wrongly that Jabbz had been the original one helping scum figure out whom to nominate. Either this Rowain is a very confused townie to whom all those who think adversely to him get lumped into a homogenous lump of suspicion (I would think town Rowain would be more veteran than that), or scum trying to sling muddy scum-vibes on anyone in the early game. I would have expected Rowain to calmly re-explain to Jabbz why Dp101 was suspicious, and save the real venom for Dp101 in this case.

[Qgqqqqq]

Day 1 Vote Count 2:

Jabbz (3) - Lewwyn, AdrienIer, Gazglum
Rowain (2) - Jabbz, PsillyCyber
AdrienIer (1) - Rowain
Lewwyn (1) Dp101


12:50 remaining.

[Qgqqqqq]

1. There is a nomination process that takes place every second day. For that day, the lynch options will be reduced to 3 players that the mafia have nominated over the preceding night.
2. There are two aliens, and no roles.

[Psillycyber]

Oh, OK, Gaz, then that setup makes sense and seems fair even with 2 scum and/or scum being allowed to nominate all town.

[Psillycyber]

Jabbz doesn't make sense when he says that scum would obviously discuss nominating in the scum thread, not in the main thread. No, Jabbz, the reason you would discuss nominations in the main thread is precisely to see who town would most easily or most hesitantly lynch, to get reactions from town. I agree with Gaz's follow-up. Rowain is starting to look better and Jabbz worse as I re-read.

[Rowain]

Okay, I just read everything up until about 6 hours ago.  So far, I really like Lewwyn's logical approach.  Most towny in my book.  

Rowain seems the most scummy for attacking Jabbz for the fact that Jabbz was merely trying to puzzle out some meta that was, in this game's case, especially fuzzy at first.  It felt like Rowain was reaching unnaturally hard for something to pin on Jabbz.  And instead of realizing this and saying, "Oh you're right, nevermind, here's another target that seems suspicious" like a good town should do, Rowain has kept harping on Jabbz.

That is your conclusion? Come point me out those attack posts. Show me how i attacked. And show me the harping. 
What do you make of those 3 currently voting Jabbz? Including Lewwyn whose logic you praise.

[Psillycyber]

Lewwyn's initial reads on Dp101 and Jabbz feel remarkably spot-on. I knew there was something that didn't quite jive with my initial read of Rowain seeming scummy and Lewwyn seeming towny. Rowain being scum implies Jabbz is town, but towny Lewwyn thinks Jabbz is scummy.

Then again, I know Gaz wasn't too keen on Lewwyn later in the thread. I'll re-assess Lewwyn when I get there, but as of now Lewwyn is feeling pretty towny and I'm starting to be convinced against Jabbz (and maybe Dp101). Jabbz's reaction seemed a bit defensive at first read, but I sympathized with it at first because Rowain's attack on Jabbz seemed to unfair and reaching upon first read....

[AdrienIer]

Huh, Rowain is still stuck on me ?

Rowain I was rather confident that you were town but you are not doing a real vote after 50h. Why ?

[Psillycyber]

AdrienIer seems logical and collected. Not too willing to read much into Dp101's chumminess with Jabbz, but most notably, AdrienIer was not just floating around. AdrienIer seemed to take a firm stand on Jabbz. I give AdrienIer town points for that.

So you don't like me voting for Jabbz (hate is a strong word...), but you're voting for Jabbz, and you're not going to change your vote for now?

Can't let everyone think you're jumping off your scumbuddy too quickly now, eh? Gotta keep up appearances!

Bingo. Dp101 feels pretty scummy. Let me see if AdrienIer catches on to this new evidence as I read, or whether AdrienIer unnaturally ignores it...

So if I understand this right, I'm scummy because:

A: I have a problem with what I view as rowain's overreaction to me talking meta, which everyone was doing.
B: I somehow have some semblance of a mind meld (with both Dp and Llewyn)
C: I voted for Dp101 first (in an obvious joke post referring back to last game) and Llewyn often votes his scumbuddy first in small games.
D: Because you guys are still miffed about last game :P

This feels like scum Jabbz playing the long game. His tone was already resigned by this point. Maybe he felt like the jig was up for him. But as a parting gift, he could at least plant the seed that his scumbuddy could have been Lewwyn just as well as Dp101 (did anyone else have that reading of Lewwyn at this point? I did not when I was re-reading just now). Dp101 was conveniently catching a lot of heat at this point. So, time to deflect?

Also, I find it amusing how this happens a lot in WW games:

1. Person A makes decent case against Person B.
2. Other people take notice of Person B's scumminess. A bit of lynch momentum develops.
3. Person B: "Oh, I see that Person A just wanted to coast on the easy lynch."

No, that lynch wasn't the "easy lynch" at the time that Person A was making the initial case. You only get to accuse Person A of coasting on an easy lynch if it was already a foregone conclusion before their case.

Here:
Person A = Rowain
Person B = Jabbz

More in a bit....

[Psillycyber]

Losing confidence in other options? What options? Where does this confidence come from? How convenient that there's a fallback to go and park your vote on if things get too hot.

Bingo. If I were town-Dp101, I would not feel confident with any of the other cases I had made yet. What evidence has Dp101 presented to make him feel like he has other pretty good optionS (plural) right now?

Is it because you are mafia and want to win asap by getting a modkill on your side? Seems likely to me.

Seems likely? This exact strategy?...as a subset of all of the other strategies that scum-Lewwyn could be following? I would say it is a theory, a possibility at best. This feels like quite a bit of reaching on Dp101's part against Lewwyn.

While I'm not positive Rowain is scummy, I feel his attacks are at best misguided but are most likely a wolf seeking a mislynch. Where does that leave Gaz in supporting those rather weak arguments (though I do understand that I appear to be in the minority for believing they were weak.) Where does that leave Dp101, who appears to have his guilt predicated on my own? What about Lewwyn and his joke vote on me that appears to still be there? You don't have to ignore everything else, but I would appreciate some conversation along these lines so that I can add a (tomorrow) town confirmed voice to that discussion.

Wait, Jabbz, you're not positive that Rowain is scummy? Nawwww, nawwww...with how defensive you've been up until now against Rowain's attacks, the only frame of mind that would make sense for you as town is as someone who feels like Rowain is unfairly and consciously coming for you as scum...not as a misguided town!

I feel like this is Jabbz trying to seem reasonable and fair-minded, open to believing anyone could be scum (which actually makes him sound unreasonable because if I were him I'd be gunning for Rowain like mad right now). Plus, a little muddying of the waters by dabbling a lukewarm, homogenous broth of scum vibes on Dp101 along with strongly-suspected town-leans, making Dp101 seem like he could easily fit in with the rest of the club.