Dave's Not Throwing Away His Shot

[oledavy]

HELLO ARCHDUKE, ALHAMBRAM, SINGABOY, WODEN, OR ANYONE ELSE STARTING THIS THREAD LATE

I regret to say that my primary hosting service provider, Photobucket, changed their account policy in mid June. Their free account (which I have), no longer supports 3rd party hosting, and they put that service behind a $40/month plan. Unfortunately, most of my images from early in this game (and all my pre-2017 threads  ), now are not showing. Apologies, as I know this will make your reading experience of my game here quite bare and sad compared to what you might have been hoping to find. 

....

Ugh, I actually really didn't want to have Rome as an option to play this game, I just really wanted to play China. It's actually killing me that one of the groups I had to reroll gave me China as an option. So now I face a conundrum. 

Rome is objectively better than Gorgo's Greece or Kongo. However, after having two Romes in the first Civ 6 PBEM, I really would like to see something different played. I also don't want to Praet Rush someone, which seems like it is the natural play pattern and something that now everyone will be expecting.

[greenline]

rename your civ to grome no one will see it coming

[Molach]

I'm pretty sure noone will expect a Praet rush...

Who got the best/worst picks to choose from, in your opinion?

[oledavy]

I'm pretty sure noone will expect a Praet rush...

Who got the best/worst picks to choose from, in your opinion?

I want to hedge all that will follow by saying that I have not played a single Civ6 MP game, just a lot of SP. With that being said, here are my thoughts: 


OleDavey: Greece (Gorgo), Rome, Kongo

One of the better draws. I actually am a bit self-conscious about this as I am worried people may think I stacked the selection for myself...

Sullla in PBEM1 has done a good job demonstrating why I agree with him that Rome is one of the better civs in the game. Great early game, strong UU. I will probably not be playing them here just because I'd like to see a little more variety in picks after having two Romes in our first game, and have little interest in a timed legion rush, which would be the default strategy. I'd rather play a builder game here.

Kongo is intriguing, and I'm not ruling it out, but they seem too dependent on getting relics to get off the ground. Without huts, it becomes that much harder. 

Gorgo's Greece is probably the one I will end up picking. I don't think as good as Rome, but not awful by any stretch. The Wildcard slot is the best attribute, and I can do a lot with it over the course of the entire game. One idea I'm playing with right now is beelining Mysticism and using the slot to nab the first GS. The extra culture from kills we be a similar if much less consistent bonus in the same vein as Trajan's Column, ideally helping me speed to Political Philosophy before falling off. Barbs on means it's actually decent here where it wouldn't have been in PBEM1

Hoplites and Acropolises are both pretty meh (although I think Theatre Districts are in general a little better than they're generally given credit for being). 


Woden: Arabs, China, France

France just sucks. 

Arabs are decent, you need to actually invest in holy sites to really leverage them, but their religious building bonus is actually pretty good. That free prophet might take awhile in MP though...

Mamluks seem really strong, but then there is Woden's third option.

China is just godly. Forget everything else, extra 10% on every inspiration/eureka? Yes please. it's a solid consistent bonus that will stack over the game. Extra builder charge is good, being able to use builder charges on early wonders allows you to cram out the pyramids (provided desert) for even more synergy. Great Wall and Couching Tiger seem kinda meh, but who cares, extra 10% on every inspiration/eureka. 

This seems like a slam dunk pick for me. I wish I had it... (says the guy who has Rome).


Alhambram: India, Norway, Russia

I almost rerolled based on this group, but actually watched Filthyrobot and was convinced that Russia is actually pretty solid. Tons of extra tiles with every city, and Cossacks are apparently the most broken unit in the game (although they come late obviously). Also importantly, Alhambram is guaranteed to not be tundra-screwed. While this is still the worst group of the five, I think Alhambram can in theory go big with Russia. 

India and Norway both seem pretty awful, although you might be able to do things with war elephants. 


Singaboy: Germany, Aztecs, Egypt

All three of these are pretty viable picks, and I think this is the best group of the five. Germany has a long build up time, but Hansas are incredible. The extra military slot is also extremely good. I would rate them only slightly better than Aztecs, who can in theory go on a city-state killing/rushing spree early game to bang out a bunch of districts. Egypt is a little lackluster by comparison, but....still. FP start guaranteed means Our Lady of Reeds and Marshes. Chariot archers are strong if not awe inspiring. Finally, I really like the production bonus on districts and wonders. I would quite happily play any of these three. 


The Archduke: Japan, Spain, Greece (Pericles)

Second worst group, with two okay picks and one awful one. Spain is pretty trash, unless Archduke can guarantee settling his second city on a continental divide, there just doesn't seem to be anything here. 

Pericles is good, Gorgo is better. Surrounded by Glory just won't come into play for awhile, and the early game is generally much more impactful. Aside from that unfavorable comparison though, Greece is still solid because of Plato's Republic. 

I think Japan is sleeper good, or at least better than people give it credit for being. I especially think halved cost of encampments is really good. Everything else seems pretty meh, but I think there's some neat stuff you can do here with districts. I would happily play them if they were in my pool. 


Quality of Pool Rankings

1. Singaboy (Egypt, Germany, Aztecs)
2. OleDavey (Rome, Greece [Gorgo], Kongo)
3. Woden (China, Arabs, France)
4. TheArchduke (Greece [Pericles], Spain, Japan)
5. Alhambram (Russia, Norway, India)


Predictions

Greece (Gorgo)
China
Russia
Germany
Greece (Pericles)

[oledavy]

I've almost completely talked myself into playing Gorgo at this point. I'd prefer to introduce some variety in our Civ6 games here, even if it is objectively a worse pick. Plus, having a wildcard slot to play with and being able to pursue an early GS strategy sounds like more fun to me. 

I'll probably post in the next couple days, after remaining settings discussion has concluded. Singaboy seems to want to know my pick before making his 

I'm perfectly willing to be the first though, nobody else's pick could sway me at this point.

[kjn]

Or push for all the picks being sent in secret to Sullla (as the one responsible for the map). Discover the other picks in-game!

[oledavy]

Or push for all the picks being sent in secret to Sullla (as the one responsible for the map). Discover the other picks in-game!

That's an excellent suggestion, I'm a little embarrassed I did not come up with it on my own 

[oledavy]

Just wanted to take a moment to give lurkers an idea of what to expect from me this game:
I will not be notably prolific in posting until mid-May or so, at which point I will be updating pretty regularly (need to stay in practice writing over the summer   ). I doubt too much excitement will occur before then anyway. 

Anyway, my very general first iteration of a plan for this game: 


I'm all but set on taking Gorgo. General strategy: focus on culture and science production, snowball into a strong mid-game, then run over people with muskets. 
 
Leverage wildcard slot into first GS (Hypatia), and start a science snowball fairly early on. 

To this end, my early focus is going to be on beelining my warrior to find a second continent for the foreign trade bonus, and getting a pantheon as early as possible for the Mysticism boost (hopefully get a faith luxury at my start or a religious city-state nearby). At some point before getting the GS, I will lay down a campus, hopefully in a good mountainous location since I have a hilly start bias. Hypatia comes out, free library and library boost, boom. Take Divine Spark as my Pantheon, supercharge subsequent GP production.

Early military focus, opening: slinger -> slinger -> worker -> settler, then return to military when I can get the +50% production bonus civic card. Maintain a herd of warriors and slingers cost-free that can be upgraded as needed, and in the interim use them to farm culture off barbs and maybe nab a city-state/other players' city. 

Provided I'm not in the middle of the continent and need to race to get land, I want to land Oracle. It dovetails well with the Great Person-centric part of my plan, the hill requirement is likely to be easy to meet, I'll have the inside track on it due to early mysticism, and I can leverage it effectively with acropolises. Finally, it gives me the inspiration for Drama and Poetry. 

To be clear, I don't think theatre districts are generally very strong. However, I do think they may not be as bad as many people say, and that culture in general is pretty good, since it is significantly harder to acquire than science. Culture also increases the defensibility of cities  by widening territory under their control and saves gold from tiles purchases.  With that in mind, this game will be a bit of an experiment in how good/bad acropolises are.  Acropolises are 30 base hammers, and get an automatic +2 culture for being next to the city-center. More expensive (eventually) but more versatile that monuments (which are 60 hammers) - not that this means ignoring monuments though.  Ignoring the other district bonuses, this makes them pretty hammer efficient, especially if you can get the cost locked down early. Add to that Divine Spark and Oracle in the capital, and you've got a pretty efficient way to churn out great writers and keep the culture snowball rolling. 

To this end, I will be prioritizing relationships with cultural and scientific (especially Stockholm) city-states. Many of my cities will emphasize early Campuses and Acropolises. I don't think it's worth building the tier 2 and 3 Theatre District buildings, but I will eventually emphasize Amphitheaters to house Great Works of Writing. On the science end, priority will go to getting Hypatia-boosted libraries. 

In any event, I hope to attain a pretty sizable culture and science lead by mid-game that can turn into a win. 

TL;DR: Hypatia -> Early Military -> Barb Farming -> Campus -> Oracle -> Acropolises -> More Great Writers/Scientists -> Lots of Culture/Science -> Win?

Of course, no plan survives contact with the enemy, and the vulnerability here is that an early wonder will put me behind on acquiring territory. If I'm in a crowded area of the Pangaea, the plan beyond "Get Hypatia and early military to farm barbs" is going to go out the window pretty quickly. But since I have about two weeks to theory-craft and think of fun strategies, I'll be sticking to this one and iterating on it for now. 


Does this sounds interesting? In that case, you should lurk me 

[Molach]

(If you wondered why no reply to last message,I was lurking).

Gorgo is interesting, actively rewards killing stuff to get more precious culture. Just what bloodthirsty lurkers need.

[oledavy]

(If you wondered why no reply to last message,I was lurking).

Gorgo is interesting, actively rewards killing stuff to get more precious culture. Just what bloodthirsty lurkers need.

I'll try to deliver some bloody excitement for lurkers. 

I have gone ahead and messaged Sullla my selection of Gorgo.