Dave's Not Throwing Away His Shot

[oledavy]

3 out of 5 so far

[shinghand]

To this end, I will be prioritizing relationships with cultural and scientific (especially Stockholm) city-states. Many of my cities will emphasize early Campuses and Acropolises. I don't think it's worth building the tier 2 and 3 Theatre District buildings, but I will eventually emphasize Amphitheaters to house Great Works of Writing. On the science end, priority will go to getting Hypatia-boosted libraries. 

In any event, I hope to attain a pretty sizable culture and science lead by mid-game that can turn into a win. 

TL;DR: Hypatia -> Early Military -> Barb Farming -> Campus -> Oracle -> Acropolises -> More Great Writers/Scientists -> Lots of Culture/Science -> Win?

What makes you think that Hypatia will be the GS in the game? I believe there are 3 classical era GS.

[Molach]

4 correct...just need russia picked for the full monty.

Any plans for how to best leverage Gorgos ability? Can it bump you to a quick early government? Milk barbs/city states? How much will an early military unit speed up culture as opposed to a monument build?

[Zero_1627]

Best of luck oledavy, I'll try to lurk You !
It won't be worth much as I didn't ever play the game, but I hope it'll help get You committed to updating (I did read some of Your threads in Civ4 )

[oledavy]

What makes you think that Hypatia will be the GS in the game? I believe there are 3 classical era GS.

I actually thought up to this point that Hypatia was always the first scientist in the game. I now see I just had a run of games where she was. At any rate, I think she is easily the best of the Classical Era GS's, so I hope she's the one that's up  If she's not, well, too bad. 

I do feel like using that early wildcard slot for a GP is the best initial use. So even if the scientist is one of the others, I will likely still go for it (has the added benefit of getting me the eureka for education cheaply and early). The Archduke selecting Greece does complicate things a little, as he can pursue the same plan. However, I doubt he will - at least to the same degree I will. Moreover, with culture from barb kills, I should be able to marginally beat him to Mysticism if it's a race. 

Alternatively, I could target craftmanship and military tradition and target a GG instead.... Hannibal Barca for example is an excellent one as he can set up a classical attack on a neighbor or city-states, and then use his ability to supercharge a medieval attack. 

We'll see what things look like in game though. As much as I might speculate on Oracles and Acropolises at this point, much will come down to neighbors, the city-state first to bonuses I get, and the land around me. At this point, I am only definitely set on two things: 

1. Cramming out enough military early to not get rushed/farm barbs and CSs for culture.
2. Using Plato's Republic to get the first GP of the game.

4 correct...just need russia picked for the full monty.

Any plans for how to best leverage Gorgos ability? Can it bump you to a quick early government? Milk barbs/city states? How much will an early military unit speed up culture as opposed to a monument build?

Got all 5! Although in fairness, I think only 1 or 2 of these weren't givens, and even then were basically coinflips, so its no great feat that I landed it. 

I intend to prioritize military early, and open with 1 worker, 1 settler, 3 slingers, and 2 warriors in some order. That will leave me with enough slingers to upgrade into 3 archers for the machinery boost, and enough military in general to take out a city-state. 

After Civ5 PBEM 5, I'm very determined to not get rushed again, and so here I'm on the do not pass go, do not ever not have a respectable military hype train. Additionally, from watching PBEM1, it seems that falling behind on military tech for even a short period of time is a death sentence. So to that end, I will be prioritizing keeping on top of military tech, and will be taking bronze working relatively early to find 2 iron.  

I don't expect an early military focus will put me too far behind, as I intend to leverage it into a free city, and everyone will have to build a decent amount of units to keep barbs under control. 

Gorgo's ability should be decent early, and I expect it will allow me to speed along my early policies at a respectable rate, guarantee I can get the first GS/GG (barring somebody getting really luck with cultural CS's nearby, and get me to a government before anyone else. I do think it pales in comparison to a free monument in every city though. While it does incentive keeping an early military, which serves a dual purpose unlike monuments, it's far less consistant than Rome's ability, and I suggest on anything less than deity barbs does not produce as much culture. However, I feel like it does scale better into the late game, and incentivizes late game warring, even rendering stalemates potentially profitable. For this game though, I'm just thinking of it as a reason to build early military, farm barbs and city-states, and the way I will initially keep ahead on culture. 

I think it beats building a monument early - almost based entirely on the monuments cost (60 hammers) vs. build a warrior with Agoge in place (27 hammers). Less consistent yield, but with Agoge, you can build 2 1/5 warriors for the 60 hammer cost of a monument, and those units can do things besides generate culture, and don't cost upkeep. 

While I'm on game mechanics stuff, can someone independently confirm for me that Agoge doesn't apply towards Spears/Hoplites? I'm almost sure it doesn't, but if it did, that would give me some incentive to actually build some this game.

[oledavy]

Best of luck oledavy, I'll try to lurk You !
It won't be worth much as I didn't ever play the game, but I hope it'll help get You committed to updating (I did read some of Your threads in Civ4 )

Thank you! I hope they were enjoyable, and that I manage to be entertaining here.

You should definitely check out the other's threads. I'm old hat at this and will likely be updating regularly no matter what, but many of the others are new and may need some encouragement to do so.

[oledavy]

Right now torn between just sticking with a Greek/Pelopponesian War theme, since we've got the Athenians in the game. Additionally, it would give me an excuse to reread Kagan this summer. 

Alternatively, I've been wanting to do a Hamilton theme for awhile. I'll leave it at Meet the Spartans for the moment.

[oledavy]

Okay, so with all the picks in, I'll do a quick run-down of my opponents and picks. I'll try to keep this brief because much of it will be pure speculation otherwise. 

Without jinxing myself, I think I stand a pretty good chance this game looking at the field. I think I have more Civ experience than anyone else here. That being said, I thought this going into Civ5 PBEM 5 too, and I got steam-rolled there. So, I'll leave it at I'm cautiously optimistic, but it's a new game and anything could happen. 

At least there is nobody playing a blatant rush civ here, and I don't need to worry about getting run over by Persia again. 

With that being said, the players and picks: 

Singaboy of Germany

I know little about Singaboy, but from his forum posts, he exudes a level of competence that exceeds that of the other players. That combined with Germany I think makes him the biggest threat to win the game. Germany wants to sit back and build towards a strong mid/late game, which is what I want to do. The problem is that Germany does it better through the amazing power of Hansas. I think Teh has done in good job in PBEM1 showing how strong they can be. You do have to get through that early game period, however. With this in mind, I would like to start next to teh, keep your enemies closer and all that. It would make it easier for me to slow him down should he show signs of running away, and Germany doesn't have an early game UU or anything that makes them an especially nasty early game neighbor. I expect big things from Singaboy, and will be keeping a close eye on his this game as he will probably be my main competition. 

TheArchduke of Greece (Pericles) 

Ah, my mirror match for our Pelopponesian War Part II showdown. Most of what I have said about Gorgo is applicable to Pericles. His ability, however, lends itself more to befriending city-states rather than conquering them. I believe his ability scales better into the late game, but the culture for kills is much better in the early game. It'll be interesting to see if TheArchduke does something similar to me with Great People. If that's the case, I might have a race for the first GS on my hands. TheArchduke seemed like a decent enough player in PBEM1, he just suffered from being on the receiving end of a well-executed plan from Sullla. That invasion appeared to tilt him and the mistakes piled on from there, leading him to an early exit from that game. I expect him to do okay here. I think he'll manage just fine, but I didn't see a real alpha-gaming personality from him in pbem 1, which leads me to believe he is more likely than not to be really passive in general and unwilling to make a big play to win should it be necessary. 

I'm a little sad he didn't take Japan. I think Japan potentially has a really killer opening by getting a couple of those encampments out early, getting the first GG, securing one iron, mass upgrading warriors/building swords, then attacking someone. Then again, I'm glad I don't have to deal with that possibility as a neighbor. 

Alhambram of Russia

I think we're going to look back on this game and see Russia as a really solid pick. Seriously, the biggest downside to Russia seems to me to be the threat of a tundra start, something that won't happen here. With that in mind, let's look at the good stuff: 

Cossacks - If he gets to this and is not hopelessly hamstrung, I expect it's GG. From what I can tell these units are basically uncounterable. 
Mother Russia - The extra starting tiles are fantastic. It allows you to be a lot more free in city-placement, saves you money on purchasing tiles, and makes your cities more defensible from the get go. The extra production and faith from Tundra means that Alhambram can likely settle an additional city or two in the tundra that wouldn't be profitable to anyone else. Seriously, give him a stretch of tundra hills, and a capital city with enough districts that its trade routes produce food, and you can make some cities that would be marginal to anyone else really viable. This means that at natural expansion limits, Alhambram will theoretically have more cities and more production in play than anyone else. 
Lavra - Any unique district is solid, and this makes Russia the one player who can go for religion without it necessarily being a waste of time. Lavra's plus Dance of the Aurora as a pantheon and Mother Russia sets him up to do some things with faith that nobody else can really afford to invest into. 
Grand Embassy - Given that domestic > international trade routes in most situations, I think this ability is weaker than the other four. Still, I actually think the ability to effectively leverage your international trade routes into at least 3 science and 3 culture each if you're behind is pretty solid, at least it gives you a solid rubber-banding mechanic. This is all provided your trading partner doesn't declare just to deny you the advantage though.

In sum, I don't think Russia is top tier, but I would be happy to play them and I think they've got some really solid stuff going for them. I definitely don't want them as a neighbor because I don't want to deal with them settling up on me and taking my land. 

Alhambram seems like your classic enthusiastic newcomer to RB, and I have no read on his skill as a player. I expect he'll probably do decently, but he is by far the biggest unknown this game 

Woden of China

I really wanted China this game. I think they're really solid and fun for a number of reasons I have explained above. 

Woden's thread title leads me to believe he's going to go for a very heavy early wonder strategy. That would probably not be the best idea. If he does do it, I hope I'm next to him so I have the option of invading to steal them all away. There are a lot of early wonders that are just weak or take a long time to really start giving benefits. He should definitely attempt to land the Pyramids, but I would be very hesitant were I him to target much beyond that. The hammers just really start adding up, even when you can use worker charges. Then again, there is Corvee for +30% on worker production. At any rate, I don't know quite what to expect from Woden either. If he tries to target every single ancient/classical wonder I expect him to founder and be the first eliminated. However, if he is tactical and deliberate with wonder building and uses it to enhance his progress towards other objectives rather than being an end in and of itself, I think he will do quite well. 

Landing all those eurekas and inspirations once you get beyond the ancient/classical age is difficult. If he manages to do it it will be hard for China to ever fall too far behind the curve. 

My unscientific and wildly speculative prediction on final standings for this game: 

1. OleDavey 
2. Singaboy
3. Alhambram
4. TheArchduke
5. Woden

I'm super pumped to start at this point. I can't wait until Sullla gets us the save and we can kick this little shin dig off.

[oledavy]

Turn 1



About the best start I could have hoped for. Tons of hills, great mix of resource types for eureakes, lots of 2/2/0 tiles. My only complaints are that I don't have any mountains around for campus bonus, nor do I have 3 contingent flat land tiles in the vicinity to use for a feudalism farm. All things considered though, a pretty dynamite start. I even got a sweet 2 hammer plains hill city-center 

I'll post at some point in the coming weeks about district plans and the like. For now, I'm working the sheep, banging out a slinger, and moving my warrior north along the river. That body of water to the west is a lake, and the river begins a little bit south of me, so I bet if I follow the river towards the sea it will lead me to a city-state.



Now for the disappointing bit. Hypatia isn't up, it's Aryabhata. He's the second best of the three in my opinion, but I still would have rather had Hypatia. Early GS plan will not be as strong as it might have been otherwise.

[Zero_1627]

and so it begins!