Woden's Wondrous World of China

[Woden]

So, this is my strategy, let me know if you think it might work or if I am crazy.

Does it matter? The important thing is that it sounds fun to try. And very different to anything in PBEM 1, so it should contribute to our knowledge of opening strategies.

A couple of questions:
Does the Pyramids add charges to existing builders, or only to newly-created ones?
Do you have plans to do anything with your religion later, or just save all the faith for army purposes?

Definitely, we will find out if it is viable and I am sure it will incredibly fun. Pyramids do add the extra charge to existing builders even if they only have 1 charge left.  I planning on building it first, for the bonus changes adds to my existing  builders. As for plans with religion beyond an army, I was thinking I am going to need a few Missionaries to spread it to my cities.  I plan on using 2 of their charges in my cities and then send them out to a neighbor to convert one of their border cities. Hopefully it has a flat land path, so I can move next to the city and spend the charge before they can do anything about it. If I can get religion into a few neighbors, I might take the belief that increases religious pressure to see if can organically spread. Also, if I attack someone, I will bring a few missionaries along to convert their cities if I can not capture them.  I would deem a war successful if I could convert their civ to my religion and just hinder their development through pillaging.  

Now that the leaders have been revealed, the only one I am worried about the religious side is Russia. They can get religion passively if they build 1 cheap Larva.  They will have to spend some production on faith buildings if they want to use it, so I don't know how much of a threat they will be.  If they are close to me and I can get an army together before we get close to Calvary, I may want attack them and at least get rid of any religion they may have. To kill a religion, all I have to do is convert any city with that religion.  If it has not spread very far, it maybe only a few cities. In short, I am going to play around with religion a little beyond creating an army.

[Woden]

Everybody has selected their respective Civilization. Here are some quick thoughts on their choices:

oledavy: Gorgo's Greece-I suspect a quick jump on culture from farming barbarians and then rocket with the cheap Acropolis. I should be able to keep up in the beginning with my extra 10% from eurekas but IDK. He is also one to look for early aggression as the Hoplite becomes obsolete fairly early. I suspect he will use the extra wild card to go for early General. Hopefully he is not near me. I am glad he did not choose Rome, as they are one of the best civs in the game.

Singoboy: German-solid pick. I will look for him to build until the medieval era, when the Hansa come online but with an extra military card, he may push a bunch of troops out. He might be a nice neighbor to have as he will hit his stride right about the same time as me. I should be able to defend against him, especially if I get a nice Petra-driven city.

Alhambram: Russia-probably the obvious choice for him. I suspect he will try and expand as much as possible, given the extra tiles he will grab. May see an early religion if he builds a few Larvas. Definately see action from him around the time Calvary comes into play, if the game last that long. If he does found a religion, I might want to look at taking action on him before Calvary.

TheArchduke: Pericles' Greece-Probably the weaker of the 2 Greek civs. I can see the same strategy as oledavy. Farm barbarians early to push ahead in culture and rocket with theaters. I also can see him going for an early General with the extra wild card slot and he saw how useful it was for Sullla in PBEM1. Will have to watch and see if he goes for the great general. He will probably try and Suzerian a few city-states but 5% is not much culture, it might be better to conquer them.

Overall, I think it will be a competitive and exciting game. I suspect early aggression from the 2 Greeks and maybe mid-game action from everybody else. I think I should pull ahead in science early and Gorgo's Greece will pull ahead in culture.

One last think. I changed my thread's name to "Woden's Wondrous World of China". It gives a little of my starting strategy away but figured I could play a little psychological warfare. I hope it might have 1 of 2 effects: Anybody thinking of landing a early wonder (1) won't try because they don't want to waste the cogs if I steal it, or (2) they will push it early and slow their development. If I see someone build a wonder, I might have to change game plans and think about early agression.

Edit: Mistake with Pericles' Greece, he doesn't get added culture by kills. Probably won't see him gain an edge cultural early.

[Woden]

After some more testing to hammer down the best starting approach, get a feel for a variety of starting positions, and figure out the timing, it seems I may be a little aggressive on my approach and over-extended my abilities to get every wonder around T100. If I were to push that hard, my defenses might suffer and I could easily be run over. In addition, I found a mistake in the math needed to complete the wonders. I was mistaken is thinking the 40% more production would reduce the cost by 40% but instead it adds to the production of the Builder (which it should as stated). So, instead of 4 charges to get 60% of the production, each builder's charge is worth 21%, so I will need 5 charges for each wonder or 10 Builders (and 1 from Pyramids) to build them all. The nice thing is that I should get nice overflow, especially on the more expensive ones. This might no change my strategy but it does change my expectations. I will definitely push to get the best 5 to start (Pyramids, Stonehenge, Oracle, Petra, Colosseum) and work towards the others but it might take a little longer.

So far I have been testing a few openings to figure out the quickest development (I am still not set on one and it might be more map dependent on which one works best):

1. Slinger->Builder->Slinger->Settler->Warrior
2. Slinger->Slinger->Builder->Settler->Warrior
3. Slinger->Slinger->Builder->Builder(chop)->Settler

I think my best approach to speed development will be to chop a lot (land dependent) with my extra charged Builders. It also seems I can buy a Builder or 2 when I get to Autocracy for wonder development.

Good thing for these few weeks to run tests and figure out strategies. I think by the start of the game, I should have a good feel for China. I still need to figure an ideal path through the trees for maximize eurekas.

[Woden]

We have a game! I downloaded the save and opened it up to see my starting location. I haven't played yet because Singaboy hasn't signed up to PYDT yet and I will get an error if I upload my save before then. Figured that out during testing PYDT.

Anyways, here is my starting location:




Pretty nice start: Stone for Stonehenge, grassland copper, 2 bananas, and horses (behind the pop up). I should get the horses as the first tile grab, then then the 2nd bananas or stone. I do have mercury third ring if I settle in place. I may and probably will move to the grassland to the east. I won't have the copper in 1st ring but it will be second ring and it will put both the rice and mercury in the 2nd ring. I will loss the cows to the west but they are 3rd ring and it may be awhile before my capital can reach them and there probably is a good second city over there. 

I should be able to get eurekas for Wheel, Horseback Ride, Irrigation, Masonry pretty early with the resources I have and with China's ability I should get a good head start in tech on everybody. My starting goal with my warrior will be to try and find a desert nearby and find 3 city-states. I will do a quick update when I actually play the turn.

[Woden]

Turn 1




I ended up moving my settler 1 tile east so I could get the hill for additional production. This brings horses into my first ring, the rice and mercury into my 2nd ring but pushes the copper and bananas out to my second ring. I don't know what the picker will chose as my first grab but should be a resource. 

I moved the initial Warrior west, across the river, revealing a potentially nice 2nd city with lots of production. I will have him follow the river southwest to see what is down there and then have him swing east to defog my south. I started a Slinger that I will send east and then north, to defog the north. 

My initial build order will probably be: Slinger->Builder->Slinger->Settler. Then we will see from there, probably add a Warrior and Trader then maybe an Encampment. 

For tech, I start Animal Husbandry and will go Mining next and then Pottery to get the starting techs out of the way and then I will chase Eureka-ed Techs to maximize my UA. I should easily get a few from the starting resources and close barbarians.




I did look at the various filters on the map. The above screenshot shows the continents. It looks like I an right on the edge of 2. This is both good and maybe bad. Good because I will get the Eureka for Foreign Trade right away. Maybe bad because I could be in the middle of the map and surrounded.  In the one test game I checked, there were 3 continents. I don't know if this is standard or if there can be 2 or 4 or more. If I am in the middle continent, I will have others on both sides and maybe north of south. If I am on the western continent, I maybe close to the coast and only have to worry about two directions (east and north/south) until Cartography unless there is a shallow channel link the west and east coasts. 

I did look at the Settler filter to see if there were any close city-states but there wasn't. Either they are farther away, which would be nice to get a good core or they have not settled yet. I don't know if they move before or after the players. I will check again next turn. I find it is good to look at that filter in the beginning to see if they are out in the fog. 

Basic Early Strategy 

I worked out an outline of how I what my starting moves to go, keeping it open depending on what I find. My initial overall strategy (first ~50 turns) will be to scout out a nice locations for a 2nd and 3rd city, find at least 3 city-states, push towards Political Philosophy on the culture side, and head towards Machinery as soon as possible on the science side, depending on Eurekas. After my 2nd city, I am going to look for a place to put the pyramids and hopefully Petra. I don't know if that will be a 3rd of 4th city. The city s going to suck at the beginning, so I don't want to settle it until I am close to building them. 

Military/Defense
I should be fairly safe once I get to Machinery a build a few Croughing Tigers. They are not the best UU but they do have a ranged attack of 50 and if your walls attack is as strong as your strongest ranged unit, they will provide a good defense.  In teh mean time, I plan on building at least 1 Slinger/Archer and 1 Warrior for each city until I get to stronger units. This should provide some scouting units and defensive units to ward off an initial early attack or barbians. I will probably add a few chariots and horseman when they become available. 

Wonders
I plan on holding out on wonders until at least I am in Autocracy to maximize the Builders. I want to get the Pyramids, Stonehenge, and the Oracle right after I enter into Autocracy. Pyramids for the extra Builder charge and Stonehenge to get my religion going. The Oracle, I want to build because that might be one that someone tries to build. Sullla has shown that great people can be powerful and I think at least 1 or more people are going to go for the 1st General.

After that I will pause until after I am in Feudalism for the extra Builder charges. I will then build the Great Library for any Eurekas I don't have. This wonder seems to come to late to get more than 1 or 2. I probably will get the sea ones (at least Ship Building, since I don't plan on building 2 galleys right away). The remaining I will build when I have the opportunity. I will probably build the Terracotta Army up to its last blast from a Builder and hold off until I have a nice army to maximize promotional benefits. I will want all of them built before I finish Divine Right on my way to the Theocracy government, because I will loss the 15% added production card. 

Other than that, I am going to wait and see how thing shake out and who are my neighbors. I plan on posting every turn but the detail will depend on how much time I have.

[Woden]

Turn 2




I opened up the save and found 2 city-states boundaries hiding under the fog. This was confirmed by the settler filter (screenshot). Now I only have to find 1 more and if nobody is directly south and close, I should be able to be first to both. Also, this means their turn is after the players. The only problem is that it looks like I might not be able to get a city south of my capital but there is at least 1 tile between them. Hopefully there is a free tile with fresh water between them, then my southern flank (if someone is down there) would be blocked.

Moved my Warrior southwest two tile and meet Nan Madol, a cultural CS that Suzerain bonus provides extra culture to districts on the coast. Does this mean that they would spawn near the coast? I don't know if city-states spawn in specific areas. The +2 culture more than doubles my current culture output and should speed me along in the beginning.  The other CS boundaries look white, so hopefully a religious CS so I don't have to run God King. I am going to continue my Warrior along the river to see if a city would fit down there and send my Slinger (being built) down to meet the other CS. I figure the Slinger will be out by the time the Warrior makes it over there anyways or maybe they will send a Warrior to meet me.

Edit: Looked at screenshot again and based on the boundaries and where the probable city center of the unknown city state is located, there should be a two tile strip between them.

[Anastenazontas]

Thank you for the updates! What are plans for research now? pantheon picks?

[Woden]

Anastenazontas: Your welcome! I am finding I like posting my strategy and turns, it helps me think about what I am doing instead of clicking through the turns, like a SP game. My plans for research at this point is to finish Animal Husbandry, then Mining. After that maybe Pottery to get the initial techs out of the way or Wheel, depends on if I meet another Civ (for Writing) by then.  I want to try and get to Machinery as soon as possible for some nice defense but will chase eurekas along the way. I really want to take advantage of China's extra 10%. For Pantheon, I am going to take one that I probably would never take in another game or with another Leader, "Monument of the Gods" which provides 15% production to early wonders. I want to build early wonders with it, and it allows me to build wonders with 1 builder after I am in Autocracy.

Turn 3
There was a turn waiting for me when I got home from work and it provide some good information.




I moved my Warrior moved southeast on to the jungle hill and found a lot more hills.  I think I want this to be my second city location. I can settle on the grassland forest 2 rows south of the Warrior and will have at least 5 grassland hills and 3 stone to work. If there are more hills to the south, I may even harvest the stone for quick development or get some Builders out. This city could be a production monster, cranking out units left and right. I could have a +5 Industrial Complex if I put it on that center hill and this is only a little under half of the potential tiles. If I settle there, I probably will buy the 2 stones before anybody else can put envoys in Nan Madol and the boundaries expand. 

Another interesting find this turn is:




I turned on the Settler filter on to confirm the forested grassland was eligible for a city and found that it is the only tile on the river I can settle. Those red tiles to the east are not from the unknown city-state southeast of my capital. There has to be either another city-state a little further southeast of my Warrior or somebody's capital is extremely close to mine. Let's hope it is a city-state. 

At my capital, I am working the horse and the tile picker says it will chose the copper in 2 turns. The Slinger will be done in 7 turns but that should improve when it grows in 3 turns. I will have it work the copper next and hopefully it will grab the rice or one of the bananas next. After the Slinger, I am going to start a Builder to improve the horses, copper , and rice for some nice food, production, and eureka boosts.

I check the score this turn to see if anything is going on. Everybody has the same score of 6 from empire and all the victory conditions have the same default order (I am 4th) except culture. I am leading culture because of the envoy into Nan Madol. This may also mean no one else has met a city-state(?). I am going to continue moving my Warrior southeast along the river and should see who is down there in the next couple of turn. Hopefully it is another first-to-meet city-state.

On last thing, you may have noticed I renamed my capital to Main Street. I named my thread "Woden's Wonderous World of China" and it kind of reminded me of something Disney. So I am going to name my cities after Disney World or Disneyland attractions, maybe even name a few units after characters. It doesn't help that I was there about a month ago and it is all my kids talk about right now.

[Woden]

Turn 4

Quick turn, I moved my warrior southeast to reveal more hills, 4 more to exact. 3 jungle and 1 forested hills. Also spied a CS boundary, looks like light brown (Industrial) . That will be 3 in under 10 turns.     No need to run around to find a third CS. I should meet them next turn. Hopefully I am first to all. In addition, I looked at the other unknown CS and it is either white for Religious or yellow for Commercial. Kind of hard to tell under the fog. 




The capital will grab the copper next turn (hopefully) and I will grow in 2. I have been rethinking my opening strategy a little and am going to run some simulations over the next few days to see if it might be better to go Slinger->Slinger->Settler & buy the Builder. That way I can get the Settler out a little faster but it might also be better to buy 1 of the bananas for another 3 food tile and faster growth. Like I said, I need to calculate it out to see what works better. It is interesting to do a turn per day, you start to analyze moves a hell of a lot more and try and optimize everything and I like it!

For the warrior, I am not sure yet where I am going to go with him. I am thinking it might be best to move down to meet the CS and continue east to meet the other CS then head south a little bit and back west to where my 2nd city will be in time to protect the Settler. That way my 1st Slinger to go north instead of south-east and see what kind of location for a 2nd or third city is up by the rice. 

Or, I can move my warrior to check out the area around the 2nd city location and see what is west. IDK, I will have to think about it and see what is southeast when I move him down to meet the CS.

[Anastenazontas]

The eraly game bonuses of meeting city states are super important, no? Can you see the color of the dotted line of their borders yet?