[no players] CiVI Lurking Part II: Sophomore Slump

[Rowain]

But I get the feeling that Singaboy is going to get ruined by a two-front joint war even though he has done nothing to deserve it.

If you settle towards a human neighbour especially into a bonus-region like Kilimanjaro you can expect this neighbour to be unhappy. If you take a CS your neighbour has invested several envoys into you can expect this neighbour to be unhappy.

Singaboy has done both and he signed peace without making sure that his neighbours spend their huge armies.
Now both have a lot of expensive units that are going to be useless soon. What else can those 2 do than fight a war? And there is no other target around than Singaboy who has done nothing to earn a friendly feeling from any of them.
Not to mention that Singaboy as Germany with its production power is going to be a huge threat for both of them in the long run.

[Esteon]

If you settle towards a human neighbour especially into a bonus-region like Kilimanjaro you can expect this neighbour to be unhappy. If you take a CS your neighbour has invested several envoys into you can expect this neighbour to be unhappy.

Wait - so what else could he have done?
Basically whatever you do will make others unhappy:
- build army = aggressive = unhappy (The Archduke)
- build economy = run-away civ = unhappy (Oledavy)
- settle cities = farmer's gambit = unhappy (Woden)
- try to overcome an extremely handicapped start instead of playing for 4th place = unhappy (Singaboy)

So the only play that's not angering your neighbours is to play a weak passive game. Which makes you ripe for conquest.

[Rowain]

If you settle towards a human neighbour especially into a bonus-region like Kilimanjaro you can expect this neighbour to be unhappy. If you take a CS your neighbour has invested several envoys into you can expect this neighbour to be unhappy.

Wait - so what else could he have done?
Basically whatever you do will make others unhappy:
- build army = aggressive = unhappy (The Archduke)
- build economy = run-away civ = unhappy (Oledavy)
- settle cities = farmer's gambit = unhappy (Woden)
- try to overcome an extremely handicapped start instead of playing for 4th place = unhappy (Singaboy)

So the only play that's not angering your neighbours is to play a weak passive game. Which makes you ripe for conquest.

It is not a point what Singaboy could have done but only if the attack is deserved or not.
I simply stated that the assumption that Singaboy is facing an undeserved attack is wrong.

Archduke has clear targets for his attack (Garmisch & Frankfurt) and Oledavy has also a clear target for his attack. Both have also good reasons for their attacks. Which makes this attacks well deserved ones.

[Esteon]

Fair enough.
So when is an attack undeserved?

I can easily give examples when an attack is unwise, crazy or unprepared, but undeserved?

[Kofiman]

When it's being done for out-of-game reasons is probably top of the list.

[Mardoc]

But I get the feeling that Singaboy is going to get ruined by a two-front joint war even though he has done nothing to deserve it. I hope I am wrong, but he doesn't seem to be expecting an attack and is only making a modest attempt at deterrence by maintaining parity. 

I've been rooting for him to get out of the turn 3 barbarian hole and he's really close, but I fear it may not be enough.

With 20/20 hindsight, Singaboy would have done a lot better to remain at war with OleDavy and put in some minor effort, enough to keep Archduke optimistic without actually killing OleDavy fast.  Then he'd have been on the right side of the 2 v 1 while still mostly spending on economic things.

But in terms of 'deserve' - well, a lot of this game seems to be fundamentally the result of 'there can only be one winner'.  An alternate way to phrase your point is 'there's no way you can win a game without the other players trying to interfere'.  It's a lot easier to tolerate if you remember that it's only a game, there's nothing morally wrong with fighting a simulated war, and most of the decisions aren't made out of anger but instead from cold-blooded analysis.

Fortunately for Singaboy, it looks like both OleDavy and Archduke are hoping for a limited war, so he probably can convert this into a 1 v 1 by ceding one of their objectives, and then use his superior production to win that front.

[Commodore]

I'm rooting for the underdog, too, but like Mardoc said, it's not about deserts here. It's a game, not a story. Talk of "deserved" dogpiles is more about game as narrative; the ISDG dogpile kind of thing, hubris-filled arrogant overdogs enraging everyone else and pride going before a fall.

[Esteon]

Is it just me or does anyone else feel that 4 of 5 players are now only playing for the 2nd place?

BTW: Mardoc's comment just improved my MP game, I realised (trivial I know) that
"2 vs 1 will happen in virtually every game, whatever you do - be on the right side."

[Commodore]

Is it just me or does anyone else feel that 4 of 5 players are now only playing for the 2nd place?

I dunno, Woden has a ghost of a chance; this attack is motivating him in the right directions. Pretty much Davy's game to lose though, yup.

[Old Harry]

If Singaboy didn't pillage Oledavy's campus then it might be undeserved. I can see why you'd root for him given the tough game he's had with barbarian attention, but Mardoc has it right - there is no justice, only win.

Also Davy had a bunch of units going obsolete and gets culture for every unit kill, so even if he doesn't get Seoul ceded he can still come out of this war ahead. I'm concerned that he isn't going all out and producing the units needed, but neither is Singaboy, so I guess he'll make his war aims this time.

I'm less confident than Commodore that Davy will win, but he deserves it for all the great threads he's written over the years...