No need for PMs, it seems the useless hoplite is bugged. I doubt it makes a difference, though.
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Civ 6 PBEM 2 Organizing Thread
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 (May 28th, 2017, 04:42)TheArchduke Wrote: No need for PMs, it seems the useless hoplite is bugged. I doubt it makes a difference, though.What do you mean with bugged hoplite? (note: hoplite don't gain Great General bonuses since hoplite is an ancient age unit (replacement of spearman) while first Great General bonus only applies towards classical and medevial era units). 
Well since, the topic, that was raised by me to oledavy and TheArchduke has been brought into this thread, let me explain:
Hoplites apparently get a permanent adjacency bonus of +10 strength regardless whether there is another hoplite or not. This makes a rather average unit quite powerful. They cost 65 hammers, need no resource, and cost a mere 1gpt maintenance. If you compare them with swordsmen and horsemen, it is clear that the bug can be game changing: Hoplite: 65 hammers, 1 gpt, no resources, strength 25 + 10, added +10 against horsemen Swordsman: 80 hammers, 2 gpt, needs iron, strength 36, bonus against anti cavalry Horsemen: 80 hammers, 2 gpt, need horses, strength 35 With the bug, the hoplite is a really powerful unit. So, since we have two Greek players here, this is not trivial for me. Not sure what to do though. A hoplite has suddenly a strength of 35 versus spears 25. It has a strength of 45 versus horsemen. That is really powerful.
May 28th, 2017, 05:45
(This post was last modified: May 28th, 2017, 05:47 by TheArchduke.)
I can delete my hoplite. Easy fix, has no influence on the current war whatsoever. Shrug.
And your logic is wrong, even with the bug the hoplite is weaker then those two units. If it was that easy, both oledavy and we would have way more hoplites..
May 28th, 2017, 05:54
(This post was last modified: May 28th, 2017, 05:55 by TheArchduke.)
Singaboy, I understand your situation, but as I said I could easily delete the one unit I have even right now. The Hoplite is not boostable by Civics to build faster, wont move faster with a GG and is vulnerable to the Swordsman. I would not have build even the one if I had the choice. Your stance that it is overpowered is silly.
On "what to do". Start a new game and ban him? Not sure what you want really..
You are of course, correct that with Agoge, the sword will cost only 53. It comes much later in the game and needs iron though.
As for 'what to do' you are correct that there is no easy solution. Let's just say, that this is the second time I am facing a 'bug'. And I am at the receiving end twice. It's easy to shrug it off, if you are not the one at the losing end of bugs. For the record, the first bug was agreed upon to let it go, though it did influence my game play to some extent... (May 28th, 2017, 05:42)Singaboy Wrote: Well since, the topic, that was raised by me to oledavy and TheArchduke has been brought into this thread, let me explain:  That is quite a nasty bug for who is fighting Greek civilization and not mention two of them.After reading Singaboy's post, I went to search on google a bit and almost nothing about it reported. It has just brought up once in Civ fanatics and it seems that bug was already present before spring patch and it didn't get fixed in spring patch, probably due being low profile bug since majority don't produce spears due it relatively weak units. But here at PBEM 2 with two Greek players it turned out that it has major consequences. We are already playing 85 turns and I don't want to stop here. It is unfortunate that it happens to be low profile bug that everyone overlooked here. I am not sure what to do with current situation, since I (also Woden) never had issues since I never went war with any Greek civilization in this PBEM. I think that three players who are most directly involved at this moment (oledavy, TheArchduke and Singaboy) should decide what to do with this bug: just let it go and continue or reach a agreement for example deleting units or make rules for example not allowing hoplite leave own borders? I am afraid that there isn't easy solution as said above by other players.
I am fine with whatever Singa decides. Can as easily delete them. Or keep them in the borders which is a bit more sane. I am still unsure what the big deal is because if you really do war with it, you will see it is useless.
Lurkers will know I've been aware of this for quite some time.
During the last war, Archduke's Hoplite was consistently benefitting from the +10 Adjacency. It also was intermittently getting +4 strength from Oligarchy (I've been documenting every bug I've encountered in my thread, these two among them). It's notable that one turn Archduke's Hoplite survived with sub-5 HP, and would easily have been a kill were he not benefitting from this bug. However, given the worthlessness of spears and even Hoplites, I don't regard this bug as game-breaking, and at the time was just willing to let it slide because I didn't see anyway to resolve it. I also didn't think it was fair to say that neither I or Archduke couldn't use Hoplites. The unit of mine you're referring to was chopped out during my final phase of war with Greece because I was cut off from double strategic resources and it was that or a heavy chariot versus a horseman heavy army. Finally, I don't know if this makes any difference or not, but my single Hoplite in our current battle has not once attacked. |
