Dave's Not Throwing Away His Shot

[oledavy]

Also, I need to know the upgrade cost from swords to muskets. 

According to Hans Lermuson's Formula thread, it's 

Production Cost X 4 Gold per Hammer
10 X (.75)(Above Result) + 10

However, when this is applied to crossbowmen, it means the upgrade cost should be in the hundreds of gold, when in reality it's only 200?

For example, applied to this situation, I'm getting 730 gold for the upgrade from Swords to Muskets, which can't be right. Does anyone know what the actual formula is?

[Ichabod]

Also, I need to know the upgrade cost from swords to muskets. 

According to Hans Lermuson's Formula thread, it's 

Production Cost X 4 Gold per Hammer
10 X (.75)(Above Result) + 10

However, when this is applied to crossbowmen, it means the upgrade cost should be in the hundreds of gold, when in reality it's only 200?

For example, applied to this situation, I'm getting 730 gold for the upgrade from Swords to Muskets, which can't be right. Does anyone know what the actual formula is?

I dont know, but perhaps it is the difference in production costs from each unit, instead of the full cost to be multiplied by 4.

[oledavy]

Also, I need to know the upgrade cost from swords to muskets. 

According to Hans Lermuson's Formula thread, it's 

Production Cost X 4 Gold per Hammer
10 X (.75)(Above Result) + 10

However, when this is applied to crossbowmen, it means the upgrade cost should be in the hundreds of gold, when in reality it's only 200?

For example, applied to this situation, I'm getting EDIT: WRONG NUMBER gold for the upgrade from Swords to Muskets, which can't be right. Does anyone know what the actual formula is?

I dont know, but perhaps it is the difference in production costs from each unit, instead of the full cost to be multiplied by 4.

Sorry, I didn't make it clear in my formula, but what I intented to convey was that you were multiplying the cost difference. 

I.E., a musket costs 240, a sword 90. 

150 X 4 = 600
600 X .75 = 450
450 + 10 = 460

Actually, that sounds about right.... Maybe? Still feels on the expensive side. It only comes down to 230 with Professional Army. Let me run the crossbow numbers again and hopefully get the math right this time.

[Ichabod]

Hey, Davy, I think the sword -> musket upgrade will cost 230. It seems you need to divide your result by 2. Here's my evidence:

Archer -> Crossbow upgrade is 200g. Archer is 50 prod, Crossbow is 180 prod (130 diff). 130 times 3 (the same as times 4, times 0.75) + 10 = 400g. So, dividing by 2 nets the expected result.

From Sullla's PBEM 1 thread, warrior -> legion is 110g. Warrior is 40 prod, legion is 110 (diff 70). 70 times 3 + 10 = 220g. Again, dividing by 2 nets the expected result.

The one that doesn't fit is the slinger -> archer upgrade, which is 30g. By using the formula above, we'd get a different result. Let's see: archer is 50 prod, slinger is 35 prod (diff 15). 15 times 3 + 10 = 55. 55 divided by 2 is not 30, it's less than that. But here's the catch, a google search revealed that there's a minimum upgrade cost in Civ 6 code, which is 30 gold. That rule explain why the slinger -> archer upgrade costs 30 and not what we'd expect.

Going by the formula, warrior to sword upgrade would be: 50 prod diff (90 - 40) times 3 + 10 = 160 divided by 2 = 80 gold. Can you confirm this?

I'm not exactly sure what really goes on with upgrades (perhaps there are rules based on the era), but the above formula fits all evidence so far. Best to test it in game to be sure, but perhaps we are on to something.

[Rowain]

One Formula I have found:

max { | PROD_1 - PROD_2 | * GlobalParameters.UPGRADE_NET_PRODUCTION_PERCENT_COST , 30 }

[oledavy]

I think Ichabod is onto something. His numbers do match my in game experience so far, regarding the swordsman upgrade and the archer upgrade. 

For now, I'm going to proceed as if the musket upgrade costs 260 and the crossbow upgrade costs 200

At any rate, thank you both for helping me hash this out. 

Alrighty, time for the moment of truth....

Turn 93



Hit it. 



Alrighty, not terribly useful, as I would get it eventually. 



Ugh. One I would probably never get, but by the same token never need. This means I can only get one of the Eurekas I actually want with my last one. Fingers crossed for Military Engineering.....



.....



You have got to be freaking kidding me. Military Engineering was the only one I really wanted, I had 3/4 chance of getting it, and came up short. 

.....

Alright. Well, that scuppers any plans of being ready to invade Archduke in the t105-t110 range, and means I won't have muskets until something like t110-t115. Just great....

Extremely disappointing low energy great scientist.

At the end of the day, Aryabhata netted me about 295 science (195 for Education, 100 for Shipbuilding). The other two Eurekas are worthless. I was really hoping for 480 total if he had gotten me that Military Engineering one, but eh. What's really frustrating here is that I couldn't have channeled him any more precisely into what I wanted - unless I could have landed a kill with my Hoplite in the last war. 

It's actually going to haunt me now if there was an opportunity for that I passed up. I think there was come to think of it, but that I didn't take it so as not to worsen an already tense situation with Singaboy over the buff the Hoplite was getting....

Gah. 

Oh well, it didn't occur to me back then. Shame on me for not thinking ahead to this moment. That makes that oversight potentially my biggest game mechanics mistake of this game so far. 

We live and learn, time to move on. 



There's a barb camp northeast of Hattusa. I feel like it will almost certainly be cleared by the time I've gotten over there though, so I'm not bothering. These CS's are ruthlessly efficient about killing barb camps, I must say. 



Alrighty, the plan right now is finishing a round of 5-6 builders, and preparing for a potential invasion from Archduke. One horseman is heading west to find Woden then double back, the other is going down towards Dorium to shadow Archduke's forces. 

Then again, Archduke did burn a second city of Singaboy's somewhere south of Frankfurt a couple turns ago, so maybe they stay at war forever. I can't count on that though, and need to be fully prepared for another dogpile. By following his army around, I should be pretty certain of his intent well in advance of it happening. 

If Archduke wants to play, and manages to beat me to El Cid, I'm expecting him to show up to Schuyler around t105 with the following: 

5-6 Horsemen
1 Hoplite
1-2 Archers
1 Crossbow
1 Battering Ram
2 GG's

Opposing him, I will have

4 Crossbows
2 Swordsmen
2 Horsemen
1 Hoplite

Additionally, Lafayette will have its city walls completed, and I should be able to be in Bastions.

My saving grace here is that Archduke is gold-starved. He will at most be able to upgrade to 1 crossbow with Professional Army. That means only 4 move 50 ranged strength terror in the event he lands El Cid. I will easily have enough to upgrade all four of my archers, and then have enough leftover to upgrade my two swords in the turns following that. 

If I manage to get El Cid, much of my worry regarding this potential future war goes away. Archduke will be the one who needs to fear me in that case. Currently, the scenario I'm worrying about is Archduke and Singaboy making peace, Archduke getting El Cid, then Archduke attacking Schuyler and Singaboy attacking Hamilton/Hattusa. This is the worst case scenario I'm preparing for. Hopefully it will not come to pass.

[srgtb]

Their formula for upgrades is very close. Round to the nearest 10 (up if the last digit is 5 so 245 would become 250).

Based on the XML files I believe the actual formula used is ((new production - old production) * 2 + 10) * 0.75. Round to the nearest 10.
The result is the same but this formula uses the exact constants from the XML file.

Sullla upgraded a legion (110) to a musket (240) for 100g with the Professional Army policy. So legion -> musket is 200g.
He also upgraded a chariot (65) to a knight (180) for 90g with that policy. So chariot -> knight is 180g.
Upgrading a catapult (120) to a bombard (280) costs 250g without the policy.

((archer 50 - slinger 35) * 2 + 10) * 0.75 = 30
((knight 180 - chariot 65) * 2 + 10) * 0.75 = 180
((musket 240 - sword 90) * 2 + 10) * 0.75 = 232.5 => 230
((musket 240 - legion 110) * 2 + 10) * 0.75 = 202.5 => 200
((bombard 280 - catapult 120) * 2 + 10) * 0.75 = 247.5 => 250

[Molach]

Missing a 75% shot you really needed to hit? Same feeling we get with xcom.

The simplifier in me wants to say (diff+5)*1,5.

[yuris125]

Missing a 75% shot you really needed to hit? Same feeling we get with xcom.

Except in XCOM that's the feeling when you miss a 95% shot. 75% is **always** a miss! You're more likely to hit a 30% than a 75%

[Ituralde]

Just saw the Campus location in Hattusa. That's really psinful to watch. There are like so many better places!