Dave's Not Throwing Away His Shot

[Cornflakes]

Thanks for your detailed reporting! Caught up on your thread over the past few days and will be lurking with pleasure throughout the rest of the game. I've learned a ton both about the game mechanics, but even more I've enjoyed and learned from your higher-level meta-game thoughts and how you apply your conclusions to short and mid-term goals and objectives!

One question I have is regarding your Niter ...

T100 you complete Military Engineering and see 1 source of Niter outside Georgetown but no second source. However at the top of your screenshots from T100 the resource graphic indicates that you have 1 Niter connected already in addition to 2 Hourse and 1 Iron. I'm confused as to how you already had access to 1 source of niter. Were you getting it from another one of your city states?

I didn't expect that they would be able to do that. Now I have two sources, as a source from a city-state doesn't count as one of my own apparently, so I'm still getting Hattusa's. When I connect mine, Hattusa's should go away, but I will have Carthage's.

In the above quote from T102 you comment that Carthage connected their Niter source, and the resource graphic shows that you have 2 Niter. Was your initial source from Hattusa? I didn't see Niter at Hattusa looking through your screenshots but I may have missed it. From a mechanics standpoint though, did you mean by the above that even with 2 city states giving you Niter that you would only be able to build muskets in cities with an encampment until you had a native source connected within your cultural borders?

[srgtb]

Thanks for your detailed reporting! Caught up on your thread over the past few days and will be lurking with pleasure throughout the rest of the game. I've learned a ton both about the game mechanics, but even more I've enjoyed and learned from your higher-level meta-game thoughts and how you apply your conclusions to short and mid-term goals and objectives!

One question I have is regarding your Niter ...

T100 you complete Military Engineering and see 1 source of Niter outside Georgetown but no second source. However at the top of your screenshots from T100 the resource graphic indicates that you have 1 Niter connected already in addition to 2 Hourse and 1 Iron. I'm confused as to how you already had access to 1 source of niter. Were you getting it from another one of your city states?

I didn't expect that they would be able to do that. Now I have two sources, as a source from a city-state doesn't count as one of my own apparently, so I'm still getting Hattusa's. When I connect mine, Hattusa's should go away, but I will have Carthage's.

In the above quote from T102 you comment that Carthage connected their Niter source, and the resource graphic shows that you have 2 Niter. Was your initial source from Hattusa? I didn't see Niter at Hattusa looking through your screenshots but I may have missed it. From a mechanics standpoint though, did you mean by the above that even with 2 city states giving you Niter that you would only be able to build muskets in cities with an encampment until you had a native source connected within your cultural borders?

The original niter was from Hattusa. As their Suzerain, Oledavy receives 1 of any strategic resource he doesn't own.

He got the second when Carthage improved its Niter (because city states give their strategic resources and luxuries to their Suzerain). Based on the wording of Hattusa's bonus effect you would think it would stop giving another copy but it only counts strategic resources from your cities as being owned.

Improving his own niter caused Hattusa to stop giving him a copy so he stayed at 2.

[Zero_1627]

Well, that was surprising... but such things do happen sometimes - after all other players do have plans of their own! I fully understand Your decision to take a break from reporting, however I'll miss it.
My best wishes - maybe there'll be another bounce?  

[Cornflakes]

The original niter was from Hattusa. As their Suzerain, Oledavy receives 1 of any strategic resource he doesn't own.

He got the second when Carthage improved its Niter (because city states give their strategic resources and luxuries to their Suzerain). Based on the wording of Hattusa's bonus effect you would think it would stop giving another copy but it only counts strategic resources from your cities as being owned.

Improving his own niter caused Hattusa to stop giving him a copy so he stayed at 2.

Aha! That makes sense now. It was the Suzerain bonus, not an improved Niter source at Hattusa. Thanks!

[oledavy]

Alright, I've had a couple days to take a step back from the game, re-evaluate my position and devise a new plan going forward. I'm in a much better state of mind than I was on Sunday morning. 

@Ituralde, @Zero_1627, and Esteon, thank you for your kind words of encouragement, I really appreciate it. 

@Srgtrb, thanks for answering Cornflakes question, that is indeed the case regarding my niter situation. 


Alrighty, I just played t116. That means 9 turns have passed without a report from me. I'm going to try and sum them up in a text post, and will resume my usual reporting with the turn I get tomorrow morning. 

Turns 108-116 - The Dark Period

The Second Peloponnesian War

Well, it didn't quite turn out to be the cold war I expected. In sum, Archduke and I beat each other into bloody pulps, with my technological advantage roughly cancelled out by the power of double-promoted double GG-enhanced crossbows. As of t109, Archduke had scored a pretty stunning victory, killing 1 knight, 1 crossbow (a double promoted one), 1 Hoplite, and having killed both of my horsemen sent to pillage his lands. With the benefit of hindsight, I would have much rather had those units on the front lines, and while they were able to do some pillaging, it wasn't near as much as I hoped. Archduke's hilly land just wasn't well suited to a prolonged pillaging campaign, and he deployed a host of units to hunt down my raiders. 

Then Archduke made an error, and overzealously moved one of his doubled promoted crossbows into Myrmidon's encampment. This was a move I was set up to counter, and I fell on the encampment with all the forces I had remaining, taking out the fort and killing the crossbow. As an aside, I did not get culture for the kill, since it was in the encampment. 

This prompted a renewed round of trading. He brought two horsemen up to kill my offending knight, and I countered by killing both horsemen. I thought I wouldn't lose my second double-promoted crossbow in accomplishing this, but he had another Crossbow to bring out of the fog. This basically brought the conflict in the west to an end. 

Since I had my armory under construction when the encampment was burned, I was still able to complete it for Gunpowder's Eureka. Crazy   But you don't look a gift horse in the mouth. 

Anyway, I was able to upgrade one of my two swords into a musketman on t113, bringing my cities up to 45 base strength, and all but ending the threat posed to them by double-GG'd crossbows. The only remaining actions in the south were Archduke pillaging my pasture, probing around Schuyler with a Hoplite and Archer, and pot-shotting my musket. In the north, his horseman pillaged my NY/Hamilton trade route, before my archer finally chased down and finished off the horse on this last turn (t116). 

Additionally on t116, I harvested NY's copper, and upgraded another musket and crossbow. With those two units, another archer to be upgraded, and a 3rd musket coming off the line, Archduke and I will be at rough military parity. I cannot make gains, not for quite some time, but nor can he. With that in mind, and the military situation the way it is, I offered him peace on this last turn after 11 turns of war. I would have offered it a turn sooner, but I wanted to finish off his northern horseman for 18 culture. With the caveat that he may refuse my offer of white peace, here is the tentative final scoreboard: 

Dave: 
6 Horseman Killed 
1 Crossbow Killed 
1 Encampment Pillaged
1 Mine Pillaged
1 Pasture Pillaged 
108 Culture Gained 
50 Science Gained 
100 Gold Gained

Archduke: 
2 Knights Killed 
2 Crossbows Killed 
2 Horsemen Killed
1 Hoplite Killed
1 Trader Killed
1 Encampment Pillaged 
1 Barracks Pillaged 
1 Pasture Pillaged 
25 Culture Gained 
100 Gold Gained

I'm going to save extensive postwar thoughts until the war is actually conclusively over, but I think it's pretty obvious Archduke came out ahead in a number of key categories, especially when you consider my objective of taking Myrmidon. One of the few positive things I can say is that I think I have effectively forestalled any thought he might have had of invading me. My army has been beaten to a shadow of its former self, but so has his. 

One of the hidden costs of this war has been the effect of war weariness on our civs. I reached -5 amenities on Hong Kong for a turn, putting it into the revolt range. I even started walls in case knights spawned and put the city at risk. Thankfully, Alhambram came through in a pinch and cut me a deal of silver for 4 GPT. I additionally chopped the city's commercial hub to completion, which gave it another amenity with the Classical Republic bonus. Dodged a bullet there, but I'm still losing a not insignificant amount of productivity with -9 war weariness empire wide. The high death toll is largely responsible, and I'm strapped for luxuries compared to some of the other players in the game. I will definitely need to get my amenities situation more in order before I attempt a really long war in the future. 

On the flip side, Archduke is suffering too. He's in Autocracy, but has only been producing -.9 faith out of his capital for the last bunch of turns. That means he at least has -3 amenities total there. With that in mind, I think he will jump at the chance of peace. 

The other positive thing I can say is that I continue to outpace Archduke and Singaboy quite significantly in tech and science, and I'm about to open up even more of a lead on them. I may have to face a dogpile from them on t130, however, depending on how diplomacy breaks in a postwar world. Additionally, if Singaboy takes Hattusa, I lose 10 science per turn. I am very interested in preventing him from doing that. 

International News

Woden spammed out a bunch of settlers and has jumped out to 12 cities. Remarkably, I am within 1-3 pop of him, assuming his capital is size 8-10. He has 12 cities to my 7, but my cities are all significantly larger. I'm also only 5 science per turn behind him thanks to my stellar infrastructure. Things look worse on the culture front though, and I'm currently running about a 10 culture deficit. He will begin to outpace me before too long though if I can't get more cities out, but I'm okay for now. He also nabbed the first GE, taking it from Singaboy who finished a project to try and get it. Finally, he got into Monarchy this last turn. 

Singaboy has settled an additional 3 cities, including a spot south of the original Frankfurt he named Frankfurt2. 

The real story of the last bunch of turns has been Alhambram. After taking Toronto, he took his massive army (of I assume knights) and took Zanzibar. There are now no CS's left on the western half of the continent and only 3 left in the east. His army is massive, double the size of Woden's. Additionally, his science and culture are both very strong, and he's got his religion in his back pocket as well. I think he's undoubtedly in second place at present, especially as long as he's making so much gold per turn. The real question now is when does he attack Woden? Surely he does. He also got the second Great Writer due to the power of Lavras. I resigned a DoF with him, mostly because it came the same turn as the silver deal. I felt like I couldn't refuse if I wanted the luxury. I do need it so I can sign an alliance with him if nothing else for the Inspiration, but I need to be very careful cozying up to Alhambram at this point. I need him to lean on, but I need to stop short of turning him into another Woden. Woden needs to be brought down a peg, but still needs to be an effective counterbalance to Russia. 

Domestic News

I delayed Exploration yet again so I could get into Professional Army and Feudal Contract, and finished Theology. A mostly useless civic, but it did get me another Envoy. I sunk it into Hattusa, along with my 2 on hand, to bring me up to 6 envoys. I'm now making 6 science per turn off King's College, and when Georgetown University finished in two turns, I'll be making 5 off it. 

I finished my first Market, the second one is due in Hong Kong in 2 for the Guilds eureka. 

Lafayette finished an Acropolis to get my culture situation in better shape, and Uptown will be completing one as well soon. New York is producing my 5th trader. The other advantage of taking Theology was that it allowed me to clear out Carthage's quest of the Inspiraton for Theology. Now I have the much easier 'send a trade route.' I will need every envoy I can get, as now the westerners have nowhere else to send theirs. I need to keep my early edge with the city-state. I'm not too worried about anyone trying to jack Hattusa from me for the time being. 

So, Exploration in 5 turns, and a Campus, Acropolis, Market, Musket, Trader, and repairs to Fort Lee all done in 2. 

Plan Going Forward

Okay, Alhambram is probably going to war with Woden, but we'll see if I can't help him down that path. If Archduke takes peace, I'm going to very obviously move my army towards Woden where he can see it, then offer him a DoF. It should be obvious to him what I intend to do at that point, and hopefully he'll accept. Woden has two recent plants in the center of the map. I'll send a knight, 2 muskets, and 2 crossbows, and my battering ram to lay siege to them. It won't be a huge army, but it should be enough to take one of the cities, and at the very least take advantage of Woden being distracted with Alhambram closer to home. Hopefully Archduke will jump on and attack with his leftover military as well. 

The danger here is that Singaboy attacks Hattusa in my absence. My remaining forces will police the region east of Hamilton and attempt to dissuade him from this. 

So, I still think victory for me lays atop a pile of cities captured from Archduke. But, now is not the time. My tech lead will only expand, and I realistically need a GG to really ensure it happens. I think Archduke is ready for peace, and if I can get him to sign a DoF that puts me safely on that other side of the age of knights that will be terrific. Archduke right now, once he gets an army of knights and crossbows, is probably the most dangerous he will ever be. In 30 turns, he will likely not be nearly as threatening - with field cannons giving me a significant edge.

So, provided of course Archduke actually makes peace and signs a DoF, I will be using my existing forces to try and support Alhambram and bring Woden down a peg, while monitoring things around the Hattusa area. On the home front, I'm going to push expansion and infrastructure hard during this period. With any luck, I'll be able to get my economy into killer shape while Woden spams out military to save his empire. My shopping list: 

 - A round of builders
 - 4-5 Settlers
 - GM projects for Medici
 - Encampment projects for Gustavus

I also really need to get my amenities situation in order, especially with classical republic going away soon, so I'll be trying to spam out a bunch of Hoplites to use in conjunction with Retainers. Getting both GP will get me the Eureka for Humanism, which has 3 amazing civics behind it - depending on how many markets, libraries, and universities I can get out in the interim. 

Oxford is also looking pretty tasty. 

Anyway, I'm going to forestall more planning for now, as this is all predicated on Archduke making peace. I'll be back with t117 and some screenies tomorrow morning!

[Zero_1627]

wow! bounce up, arriving!

[oledavy]

Turn 117

Not only was Archduke ready for peace, he pre-empted my planned offer of a DoF. 



Needless to say, I accepted. This is also great because this puts makes it impossible for him and Singaboy to jointly dogpile me. I have a DoF with Singaboy that runs out on t129, and now one with Archduke that runs out on t146. My only fear is that Archduke jumps on Singaboy in the interim, as he has a DoF with Woden that I don't know when it runs out. I think he has a DoF with Singaboy too... However, that one may not have very long either. In any event, this may work to my advantage. Singaboy will likely be unwilling to leave his border with Archduke unguarded, which means taking Hattusa will be impossible for him. Moreover, given that his military is larger at present, he has access to knights, and has plenty of warning, I think it will be difficult to simply swallow up Singaboy if Archduke does march against him, even with 2 GG's. 

Anyway, enough mulling over local geopolitics, time to engage in the wider world. 



Hopefully Alhambram doesn't accept and ruin my element of surprise. I am offering him this deal to signal my intent. Speaking of, here's the target and my army: 



Tiny force, but all state of the art. I'm not going to lie though, it will be a coinflip at best if I can take the city. The terrain is simply awful, and if he finishes walls or has a crossbow in there, things be a lot more difficult - simply because it's going to take me so many turns to maneuver everything into position around the city during which he can pepper me with arrows. We'll see what we can accomplish with this force, however. The important thing is not necessarily to take the city, but to divert his attention and give Alhambram greater odds of accomplishing something meaningful. 

In the east: 



Barbs certainly don't need much fog to spawn. This is the second camp to pop up in so many turns - the last one atop my TR to Aachen. I actually beat Singaboy to clearing it, a nice break after having the last two clears jacked from me. Anyway, I'm going to send my new musket to clear it. Then, I may send it to finally farm all that culture north of Hattusa, provided it's not needed elsewhere: 



I finished my 2nd Acropolis this last turn, in Uptown. When I complete Georgetown University and repair Fort Lee next turn, I'll have 8 districts total. Getting the civic behind Guilds that gives +1 culture for every district will be pretty huge for me. 



All in all, my economy is still in great shape and I'm head and shoulders outdoing half the competition. If I can keep that up, I'll always be a contender to win this thing. However, I still need a big break to finally bust out of my corner and ascend to the lead. Hopefully ~20 turns of expansion and teching will finally put me in a position where I can accomplish that. In the meantime, it's time to backfill my last 4-5 locations and match Woden in total number of cities.

[oledavy]

The Second Peleponnesian War - A Retrospective

Alright, with the war safely behind me, I wanted to share a few thoughts on why it had the outcome it did. If players from PBEM3 are reading along, here are my main takeaways: 

1. If your opponent has walls, bring overwhelming force (either in the form of numbers or technological advantage). If you don't, prepare for a bloodbath. 
2. A Great General is worth approximately half an era of a tech edge, account for this accordingly. 

That being said, this isn't exactly like Civ4 in that you have to be successful at warring or you're out of the game. War weariness can hurt your output, but not nearly as bad as your tech rate was hurt by warring in Civ4. It's totally fine to fight for very limited objectives in Civ6, a city-state for example. I feel like it's also worthwhile to engage in a war simply to pillage with Raid equipped. However, if you want to take fortified cities, prepare for the struggle. The defender has the advantage every step of the way. 

I did make some gains from this war, my biggest threat has now been neutralized and pacified. By the time we fight again, double GG-enhanced crossbows and knights will be nearing the end of their shelf life. Strategically, I consider it a qualified success. However, tactically, it was a fiasco. Only Archduke whiffing at the end allowed me to bring things back to a closer to even unit exchange. Even with that under consideration, he lost outdated horsemen, and half of my unit losses were state of the art crossbows and knights. When you take into consideration my aims and the potential my army had on t105, it grows pretty disappointing. 

It's been a pretty disappointing game for me fighting wars I must say. During the Great War, I forced a draw against the odds. However, the subsequent two have been tactical defeats. I only have two positive takeaways from my last two rounds of warring: 

1. While I failed in both to accomplish my primary war aims, I did accomplish something important strategically in both. 
 - During the Second Korean War, I distracted Singaboy long enough for Archduke to burn Frankfurt. The losses he incurred in that war have rendered him significantly weaker than he would have been otherwise, and allowed me to become ascendant over him in the east without having to fight a hot war with him.
 - During the Peleponnesian War, I destroyed Archduke's army at the expense of my own, and forestalled him invading me - as his positioning indicated he desired to do. 

2. Thermopylae has meant that even losing wars still end with me gaining culture. I don't know where I would be this game relative to Woden without heavy use of Thermopylae to keep pace (over 300 culture total at this point). 

With these things in mind, here are the specific decisions I attribute the outcome of this war to. I still think the attack was very solid in concept, but a number of events turned the tide during the initial turns of the war. 

1. Archduke taking El Cid

I imagine I took some flak in the Lurker thread for attacking into 2 GG's. However, even with the war in the rearview mirror, I don't believe I had a choice on this front. If I had gotten El Cid, I have little doubts I would have taken Myrmidon and might be besieging Mykenes right now. However, I believe that when Archduke got it, it was a question of attack or allow him ~10 turns to muster an army of knights and crossbows and then be invaded myself. On t105, I had an opportunity to attack him while I had knights and he did not. An opportunity to defeat him in detail before his army was fully mobilized. I also knew I would only be facing 1 crossbow, which I estimated I could overcome. So, while I think there were future moments I should have changed course, I think not attacking Archduke was simply not an option. 

2. Woden funding Archduke

This was the first moment I should have considered turning back. My plans were based around facing 1 Crossbow, which while tough, was hardly undoable. I should have expected Archduke to find funding abroad, and re-assessed based on this information, but I did not. The difference was huge. Additionally, pillaging my trade route allowed him to upgrade a 3rd crossbow. I thought I had a window before he was able to deploy a significant number of crossbows, but Woden allowed him to bridge that gap. 

3. Not accounting for Double-Promoted Crossbows

In my scouting of Archduke's lands, I didn't encounter any archers with 2 promotions. This led me to do my calculations for the war based on 50-55 str. crossbows versus 48 strength knights. While the results weren't pretty (~35 damage per shot without anything else taken into account), you have to remember I was counting on facing 1 crossbow and the ranged attacks of the encampment. With this in mind, I believed it would take 4-5 attacks to take down one of my knights, and that was why I went all in on t106. 

4. Going all-in on t106/107

It's probable at this point that taking the city was near impossible thanks to the previously mentioned reasons. However, I did not grasp this, and went all in on t106. This critically allowed him to kill one of my knights before I even attacked the encampment. I was stunned to be frank, I saw how he did it, but didn't expect that much damage output from him. 

However, I stuck it out and kept going, leaving the crossbow in Fort Lee, where it died the next turn. I had done the math, and estimated that he could not take it on t107. I'm still not entirely sure everything I missed. I know one thing I didn't account for was him grabbing the Preslav bonus for both of his horses attacking my hilltop encampment, but I don't think that was all of it.

The saddest part is that I think I could have allocated my attacks better on t106 and held the encampment. If I had killed the southern horse instead of the one across the river, for example, he would have been attacking it with -5 less strength than he actually did. By using an attack from the sword, I actually would have still been able to damage one of his horses across the river. 

Not much else to say here other than I made a couple simple tactical mistakes that allowed the chances I had left to take the city to evaporate.
 
5. Using My Horsemen to Pillage

Another idea that I felt was fine in concept, but I botchedd in execution. I would much rather have had these units near the front to absorb fire with the benefit of hindsight. One died without accomplishing much, the only only got off two pillages (100 gold, 50 science). The only other positive thing I can say about this use of units is that it drew large portions of his army away from the front and forestalled an invasion from him on t109/t110, but I still don't think it was a terribly worthwhile use of these units. 


Anyway, it was going to be a near-run thing either way, and these 5 mistakes or unconsidered factors on my part are I believe the the primary reasons the war ended in my defeat. I still believe a quick dagger at Archduke before he had more than 1 crossbow was really good in theory, but the accumulation of all these mistakes and unforseen circumstances caused what might have been a short victorious war to devolve into a race to stack up bodies in the Argentinian Delta. Here's hoping I enjoy more success in my next war, and never have to contend with double-GG'd anything ever again.

[Mardoc]

The defender has the advantage every step of the way. 

I'm curious exactly which mechanics account for this.  The only defender's advantages I see are that cities and encampments are immobile but strong ranged units that can be stacked with, that take reduced damage in the absence of siege weapons.  And maybe something with vision, defender might be able to plan better.  

Mobility seems to be even, both sides take damage every time you fight, there's no stacking units to force a unit to hit the worst enemy in a rock-paper-scissors.  

What am I missing?  There's got to be something fundamentally wrong with my understanding.  I thought you were going to steamroller Archduke too.

Or are encampments and cities themselves just that strong?  How much extra army do you need to account for a city?

[oledavy]

The defender has the advantage every step of the way. 

I'm curious exactly which mechanics account for this.  The only defender's advantages I see are that cities and encampments are immobile but strong ranged units that can be stacked with, that take reduced damage in the absence of siege weapons.  And maybe something with vision, defender might be able to plan better.  

Mobility seems to be even, both sides take damage every time you fight, there's no stacking units to force a unit to hit the worst enemy in a rock-paper-scissors.  

What am I missing?  There's got to be something fundamentally wrong with my understanding.  I thought you were going to steamroller Archduke too.

Or are encampments and cities themselves just that strong?  How much extra army do you need to account for a city?

I can hardly claim to be authoritative on this front, and I welcome counter-opinions or addendums, but from my vantage point the defender enjoys three primary advantages. 


1. Movement Rules

So first off, I believed ranged are "generally" better than melee, in that they can attack without taking damage in return. Second, because of movement rules regarding hills, forests, and rivers, a defending ranged unit will generally get a free shot in on a melee unit before the melee unit makes contact. Add to this that the ranged unit on a hill gets a defense bonus, and can heal in its own territory for 15 HP per turn while you can only heal for 5 HP. All this is to say that despite melee's strength advantage, if you're attacking ranged on defensive friendly terrain, that advantage has usually been nullified by the time you make contact. Horses are a way to overcome this, but the Argentinian Delta is an exceptionally hard region to move through with lots of hills and rivers that make horses little better than melee. Add to this that a human player will always focus fire to eliminate units, and you end up in a situation where the attacker will always be significantly cut down when attacking a ranged defender on good defensive terrain. 

Archduke's hand was further enhanced by having 4-move crossbows that allowed him to easily focus fire and overcome to mobility limitations of the region. 

2. Defensive Vision/Supply Lines

I can't overstate the importance of fighting with shorter supply lines and better vision. More often than not, both Archduke and I lost units because we didn't account for a unit in the fog that could hit us. I've been keeping tabs on his army the entire time, but you can't account for everything because of the turn delay in the domination counter updating, and the possibility of chopped mounted units coming along the enemy road network to hit you. 

In just this last war alone, I lost 2 units by being hit by units out of the fog, and Archduke's loss of the crossbow and his encampment was a result of a similar lack of vision. The defender is playing with near perfect information at all times, where the attacker is more often than not partially in the dark (at least until I start utilizing sentry settlers   ). This means that the attacker is significantly more likely to give up units to errors and make mistakes than the defender. 

3. Walled Cities/Encampments Are Just That Strong. 

Since they don't have promotions, they don't attack with the same punch of a ranged unit. But, it's a free attack, and allows you to shield another ranged unit. You have to account for a substantial bit of damage output every single turn you stay in range of an encampment city, and once you commit, you really need to keep going or that damage was absorbed for nought. 

The fact that a city has 200 strength, and gains back 20 every turn regardless of whether it shoots or not, means that after you take out the enemy army, you need 3-4 units (plus siege support/battering ram if it has walls) just to take the city center. 

When observation balloons and air power comes into play, I imagine cities will be a whole lot less difficult to take, but in the interim, cities and encampments are pretty tough nuts to crack. Now, granted, defending the city center is not the same as defending your districts, so while a ranged unit in a city is a strong defender for a long time, it doesn't prevent the enemy army from overruning the land. But, if you want to take fortified cities and encampments, you need a substantial force. 


That's my takeway at least, based on my experience this game. The only successful city captures we've seen so far this game were Archduke surprise attacks on the unfortified cities of Frankfurt and Garmisch while Singaboy's army was deployed against me. Against a defender who is fortified and ready, you need a substantial edge if you want to come away with territory - at least at this point in the game.