Where to will Singaboy steer the Teutonic power?

[Singaboy]

T182:
Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good. My bombard survived with the slightest of health. Time to retreat it and attack with other troops.




I shuffle the cannons around and upgrade one of them while 3 fire at the city. I also get a cavalry and a musket to attack the city. The musket on the campus pillages and



I upgrade another horseman to a cavalry and might be ready to attack an infantry nearby Seoul. I have a cannon there and two cavalry, it might just be enough to defeat it. I need to be careful here, though my military strength is still #1 (1500+). Alhambram has many injured units and has made any progress with regards to Woden.

I have two units in the south to eliminate a barb camp for some extra gold, which is now needed. The situation after the attacks looks like this: Fortification has dropped from 142 to 90, I might be able to get that city in one turn or two. The question is now, whether to raze the city and deny oledavy the chance to retake it or to keep it. Have to think about it.

[Alhambram]

Just finished reading your thread!

Well for starters you surely got worst barb roll of all players!  I did have some trouble too, but mainly due how I did deal with them (almost embarrassing how I did over there!).
But good job with that barb horseman, just when barb trouble was over, you got oledavy and TheArchduke next you. That wasn't easy situation.

Good read by you truly to take Seoul, defending it and pillaging oledavy's campus, it stopped his threatening runaway prospect.
And the second Seoul defense was even more impressive, routing oledavy especially considering the fact that TheArchduke's Great General army was razing your cities at south.
That unfortunately ended you chances to win, but it was impressive that you managed to keep Seoul till end of game, after all it was next oledavy's capital!

And then that bizarre 80 gold demand from TheArchduke, I was surprised to see it happen and well you could say that there almost isn't better way to provoke war.
But you jumped in and that is exactly what TheArchduke wanted so he could take out your charging troops with double GG crossbowman.
After that TheArchduke pushed for Aachen and I really thought at that moment that you might be first to be eliminated. And oh, sorry for my apostle blocking your defensive plan!
But you yet again showed impressive defense to survive and manage to hold out until TheArchduke got dogpiled by oledavy and me.  

I initially wanted ally with oledavy, at that moment I was bit weak and behind oledavy and Woden which made oledavy more natural ally since he was in my eyes only one who could deal with my northern neighbor Woden too. But then oledavy went in bloody war with TheArchduke and stalemated. At same time I started aggressive push for city states and suddenly found myself solid in top 3 instead sharing same position as TheArchduke and you. The result is that I started to view oledavy more as rival/threat then potential ally and searched for another ally and I ended up with you.

Since our meeting at turn 51 we did trade a quite lot, sometimes things didn't went what we wanted, but there wasn't really bad blood between us due distance between us lands. After oledavy one shot TheArchduke's capital I was worried that oledavy might sweep entire eastern continent and wanted to ally with you to send message towards oledavy that if he attacks you, then I attack oledavy. And in handful turns diplomacy suddenly went in rapid downstream with TheArchduke eliminated and tensions arising between 3 top players. Also oledavy signed friendship with you, I knew it means that oledavy might after my cities. So I intended to ally with you so oledavy don't send majority of his troops to me and this way I could throw my strongest military towards Woden instead sending more units for defense against oledavy.

But you did make a big difference in war, really! That three amenities (coffee, cotton and wine) which only appear in eastern continent and none in western continent, you traded that with me. As result I never needed to stop war against Woden and could keep war engine ongoing. I am sure that I was forced to stop war if not for amenities from you. And same time I was pleased that you started to bother Hattusa and it resulted in oledavy's main army marching towards Hattusa. It means that I got completely free hands to deal with Woden and it gave me green light to open second front against Space Mountain and Thunder afterwards using units meant for defending Helicegrad and Abydosgrad.

And toward end of game, you showcased power of Hansa's beautifully, mass producing units out thin air and it resulted in highest domination score at end of game. I need to add a note here: forming corps do decrease domination score in fact, for example 2 infantry forming corps: 70+70=80 resulting -60 for domination score. So oledavy's and my domination score seemingly stagnating comes from it. I knew that you didn't have chance against oledavy in case he fought you seriously with his main army. I was happy that you finally proposed alliance and I hoped that you could judge through my eyes which military capacities oledavy would have and you indeed did it.

It was really a pleasure to have you as ally and you did play a fine game, bit unlucky with TheArchduke attacking you and ending your game. I think that you have a good grasp of how to play with Germany now and I am sure that you put it to good use in PBEM 4. Good luck with PBEM 4!

[Singaboy]

Thanks for the extensive comments about my and our game. I enjoyed the contact with you in the game, I guess due to distance not much of bad blood.

Had I known that an alliance doesn't drag me into war, which I thought was premature, I would have agreed much earlier.

By the way, I realized from your thread, that you did not know that districts do not lose their 'production' when pillaged, be it science, culture, gold or hammers. Hence, I never bothered to repair those Hansas. They were still just as impressively effective. They are monsters really if you can get plenty up and running.
Like Russia, Germany is a power that gets better the longer the game lasts.

[Alhambram]

Like Russia, Germany is a power that gets better the longer the game lasts.

Best way to deal with such civilizations is to rush them early or eliminate them before game gets longer, I also ranks Arabia along civilizations that needs time to become really powerful.

The difference between us in this PBEM, well you got in wars and you lost two cities, crippling you. And me at other side wasn't bothered all way till turn 160 when I got Great General powered Cossacks which meant end for my neighbor Woden.

[oledavy]

Still reading your thread, but I just wanted to offer a   about that barb start. Rough start, I thought you had problems, but I didn't realize how bad they were. 

I will say, I didn't realize before this game that barb horsemen were only 20 str. I'm so glad they aren't 36 str and just end your game immediately. 

I'm also generally curious to here your thoughts on our relationship over the course of the game. I think it's interesting because I think we saw each other as bigger long-term threats than Archduke, but were both constantly side-tracked by wars with him.

[Singaboy]

@oledavy,

initially I was very worried for both Greeks to attack me with their UU. So, I wanted to head for iron as fast as possible, and grab that Kilimanjaro site to make sure Archduke can't take it. Once I had that secured, I tried to make sure there is no runaway player and it happened to be you, who seemed to run away in score. Hence, my decision to attack Seoul to dampen the science lead. On the way, I discovered that campus, which I thought was easy to pillage (with far worse consequences than what really happened).

However, despite the wars around Seoul, I thought the relationship was more of a 'fair' contest which was straight forward without malice. This was in stark contrast to Archduke's ridiculous 'offers' to get me to declare war. I felt he was never interested in forming an alliance with anyone rather than having his bipolar wars. It drove him to where he got in the end as he did not follow through with his wars.

With limited diplomacy, I was never able to form a real alliance in the East to have a 2 versus 1 situation, which would have suited me more. The game was lost anyway with my loss of Frankfurt. I should have built more military maybe in anticipation of an attack. But, building districts was too tempting and I could have pulled it off, given maybe a better start and a little more time.

[TheArchduke]

Sorry that you seem to have taken my wars that rough, Singaboy. In any case you came out on top. Due to some unfortunate circumstances and failures on my end only an aggressive play could have dug me out of the hole.

In regards to Seoul and Aachen both surviving under attack. It is very difficult and dangerous to attack a city when there are still enough defenders around to punish you. Whilst a field battle could only end in disaster, Aachen was from the point you had a musketman never under any serious threat, as was the city walled Seoul thanks to your swordsman.

I do hope that you read my thread and get a better picture why I did the things I did.

I surely saw that you had a rough time especially at the start and understood your comment in the Organizing thread much better.

In regards to "bipolar" wars, one assumes the worst if one can not communicate with the other and what did you expect when you settled the city between us at Kilmanjaro.
Couple that with taking the southern iron (the only one possible after Kilmanjaro) you forced me to act against you.

If you did not settle Garmisch, I doubt I would have ever attacked you.

[Singaboy]

@Archduke.

Interesting input. I wasn't aware that Garmisch meant so much to you. I was actually all the time more concerned about the leaders on the board, which was oledavy, then Woden. I simply tried to stay in the game not looking for a war in the south at all. I had no idea about the iron situation. Garmisch was for me to secure 2 sources rather than taking it away from someone.

That's how one can be oblivious to the big picture sometimes.

Regarding sieges of cities. I do understand the fear of casualties, but if it would have been me, I would have attacked full scale in the case of Seoul (oledavy virtually surrounded Seoul with units ready to strike but didn't do that). Same as Aachen, It would have broken my neck I felt.

[TheArchduke]

Garmish was the only reason I could build knights and upgrade to swordsman. So it was a big deal.

But I doubt you would have ceded it me if I asked.

And I did ask you for an iron during that war with Oledavy, Singaboy.

It is difficult but if you put it together you see the issue. With that Iron and 2 swordsman I could have punctured Oledavy.

[Dreylin]

Well, I go away for a week and suddenly it's all over!

I've got to say I'm a bit disappointed to not see how you'd have done against oledavy's army, but your tenacity and ability to continue to create worthwhile goals for the game even after all seemed lost (several times!) are great. It was a pleasure to be able to offer an alternate view from time to time & I hope you have better luck in the next game.