Dave Fires Up The Epstein Drive [Japan]

[oledavy]

For comparison, in PBEM2, a few turns from now is when the first Pelopponesian War between me and Archduke began. I met both him and Singaboy between turns 15-25.

At other hand it increases the chance that we might see some nukes in this PBEM! (I played single player against AI today and used nukes against them, nukes are truly terrifying ).

I will admit, it would be cool to see a Civ6 game go to late game, hopefully this will be the one 

Finished my second Holy Site this turn. The land continues to stretch out westward, seemingly without end. This feels like a very snaky continent I'm on. I also uncovered what looks to be another large island to the southwest. I'm beginning to think this map is not standard size, but large. I hope not, I want to be able to have some interaction with other players before t100. 

For comparison, in PBEM2, a few turns from now is when the first Pelopponesian War between me and Archduke began. I met both him and Singaboy between turns 15-25.

The map size is not Large  it was as requested which I think was Small. I think you've only had your galley out for 8 turns   

Loving the reporting and thoughts! I read along every day!

Thank you! And please excuse my map griping. You're right, I haven't had my galley out for THAT long at this point. I'm just used to pangaea spacing where the outer 1/3 of the map or so is useless ocean, and the players are crammed closer together as a result. Here, I imagine we're all on the periphery, so it makes sense that it's taking me awhile to meet people. 

At any rate, turn 39 is now in the history books. 

Turn 39 



So, I just got a major shove in the direction of continuing to pursue a religious game plan. While I would rather have been first to meet a scientific or cultural city-state, you won't hear me complaining over free faith. It also has an easy quest (train an archer). 

The biggest benefit to finding Jerusalem, of course, is getting the Political Philosophy Inspiration. If my cultural production doesn't improve at all over the next 15 turns, I will get my classical government on t54. I feel like that's about the same timeline I had in PBEM2, but I had an early monument and Thermopylae there. Here I just have God of the Open Sky. 

The big news didn't stop there though: 



I didn't take a screencap before I moved, but there's a barb horse on that wheat!

That means there's another city-state or a player on the same landmass. Just really far away, across an ishmus and tundra. We'll see if I can't make contact. My galley is circling northwest of Jerusalem to increase my chances of making contact and hopefully find their CS. 

Finally. 



I debated for awhile if it was worthwhile to defog that area in its entirety, I started edging toward it this turn, but no larger landmass emerged out of the fog - just a snowbound island north of Toronto. If there was a CS there this entire time, I'm going to be kicking myself later, but I think for now, I've seen all I need to see. My galley will be heading east of Toronto to continue the search for unmet city-states and perhaps run into Jpper007.

[oledavy]

Turn 40

Contact!



I think Woden might be on the same landmass as me, but its impossible to tell yet. We'll see if he sends me any inquiries via the diplo thread. At present, there's nothing he knows that I'm terribly pressed to find out. I have already met three city-states, so meeting his one is not a high priority. 

He's even with me in science, behind in the other major categories. He is working a gold tile though: 



Building 2 galleys and 2 districts early has put my GPT in the dumps. It will take getting conscription and working a plantation to get myself truly back in the black. 

Woden locked in a campus at his second city, makes sense to utilize Brazil's UA that way. 

Finally, I noticed this to the east: 



Whoever is over there founded a trade route towards the city, if I cut south with my galley, I should be able to meet them.

[oledavy]

He is working a gold tile though: 

On further reflection, it's more likely he has a commercial CS as his starting city-state. 

I would actually like to meet it before I hit the classical era. There's a decent chance it will have an easy to get ancient era quest I can land for +4 gpt.

[oledavy]

oledavy, 

We may be able to work out a deal for you to meet them soon. I propose the following deal:

I will sign open borders with you for:

1. Friendship - so you don't trying anything funny with that galley
2. Promise not to send an envoy to Lisbon until after T51 - don't see this as a problem since you probably won't have PP until around that time.
3. Provide me with a little tribute to show your appreciation for early access to a gold baring CS that you will benefit all game? Say 30 gold? I don't know if there is another route via the ocean but in a couple of turns the route around my island will be blocked. 

Let me know what you think. Of coarse you could always declare war but your galley is a long ways from home and who wants to start this budding friendship off on the wrong foot.

Woden's deal is absurd. I can only assume he's trying to bluff me, or start out the deal high. At any rate, I have no patience for this, and had to edit out a much snarkier reply to him I originally wrote. Here are the facts on the ground: 

1. My galley is 30 strength to his coastal city's likely 10 strength. That means I deal 60+ damage per attack and take ~15. Barring a supporting unit, that means my galley can basically take the city on its own. Another galley being present would guarantee it. However, I'm not willing to gamble on the city not being on a hill/a slinger not being nearby - especially as this would be a city I would not be able to hold. It would not help me win, it would only make Woden less likely to win and make me an enemy for the rest of the game. 

2. I'm not even sure his city blocks off access, fog reading leaves the answer in doubt. 

And yet, he wants a DoF to guarantee my good behavior, wants conditions on when I can sink an envoy into Libson, and tribute?!

I thought long and hard last night about just moving through his territory. However, I opted against it for two reasons: 

1. I believe there may be access to the south, and besides, I don't mind taking the long way around as it makes me more likely to encounter another unmet city-state. I still have time before I get to the classical era. 

2. And this is the big one. My other neighbor, as I confirmed this morning, is the Vikings. We're already in conflict due to us both seeking the first Great Prophet. My relationship with the Vikings is likely to be much more fraught than my one with Brazil, and there is and island between our starting continents Jpper007 may seek to contest me for. 

With that in mind, I'm going to try to keep a level-head dealing with Woden, and begin the process of building a relationship with him. No DoW today to get my galley through his borders.

[oledavy]

Turns 41-42

While I've been wheeling and dealing with Woden, things have continued apace elsewhere. 

In the cold northwest, my warrior has encountered mountains blocking his path. I'm going to see if there is an overland route to Woden to the southeast. 

My settler completes next turn, and state workforce comes in. Over the course of today, I need to figure out how badly I want Defender of the Faith. Why?



Jpper007 completed a shrine. Man, he really wants it.

So, now if I want it, I'm going to have to sink about 100 hammers into building two district projects. Quick back of the envelope math reveals that gets me a GP in about 10 turns, almost certainly beating Jpper007 even if he does run his own project. It doesn't guarantee me against the Stonehenge builder though. 

I'm going to do some math this afternoon and try to work out what the best course of action is, but it's either that, a more conservative plan using shrines, or constructing builders (which is what I really want to do) starting next turn. 

Jpper007 was exactly where I thought he was: 



Notably, he doesn't have a pantheon yet. 

The bad news is that my galley is in a bay, and I'm going to have to do quite a bit of backtracking to start exploring again. 

Maybe the two of us can hammer out a deal regarding religion, but its doubtful. He's already sunk so many early cogs at this point - even accounting for his extra hammers early from Toronto. He has to make it pay off at this point. 

The other international news was Woden finishing Early Empire this last turn and swapping out of God-King, taking Divine Spark as his pantheon. 



He also is spending money like there is no tomorrow. His science shot up, but no campus completed? I'll look into things more closely in the coming turns.

[oledavy]

On more reflection, I think I have to pursue the first religion in a big way. Even if Defender of the Faith isn't necessarily worth stunting my early growth, you know what is worth it? Making sure my closest neighbor and most likely enemy doesn't have it. 

So yeah, the plan has been drawn up. John The Baptist is recruited on t51. 

I found the formula again, linked here. 

With 6 techs and 5 civics, I estimated a Holy Site project will cost me 60 hammers and give me 17 GPP. 

However, there is a question mark in the formula as to whether the first multiplier in the GPP yield calculation is 5 or 10. 10 produced a number that seemed more right to me, but if someone knows for sure if this is correct, I would love the confirmation.

[oledavy]

A couple thoughts. Singaboy started with a militarstic city-state, as expected. 

I have not revealed yet and do not plan to for awhile that Woden and I may share a landmass/there is likely a city-state directly west of me. 

All of this information sharing has hopefully scored me a few points with others at no real cost to myself, and given me a more complete picture of the map and where to go hunting for unmet city-states.

[suboptimal]

However, there is a question mark in the formula as to whether the first multiplier in the GPP yield calculation is 5 or 10. 10 produced a number that seemed more right to me, but if someone knows for sure if this is correct, I would love the confirmation.

The first multiplier for GPP yields on projects is 10 for regular districts, 5 for Theater Districts and their replacements.

[oledavy]

However, there is a question mark in the formula as to whether the first multiplier in the GPP yield calculation is 5 or 10. 10 produced a number that seemed more right to me, but if someone knows for sure if this is correct, I would love the confirmation.

The first multiplier for GPP yields on projects is 10 for regular districts, 5 for Theater Districts and their replacements.

Thank you very much Suboptimal. 

Quite a bit to mull over this turn. 

Turn 43

I began the turn with a civic swap. 



The unexpected news was that I had a ton of overflow hammers from finishing my settler, such that I could not only get a district project out of Ganymede in the next 8 turns, but also build something else. After considerable thought, I decided on a shrine. It will give me an extra 4 GPP of breathing room if my calculations are wrong, but more importantly, it will allow me to buy a missionary as soon as I found a religion.

The rough order of events here is that I want to research archery and upgrade my slinger for the quest with Jerusalem, but at the last possible minute. Political Philosophy finishes in 10 turns. I need to clear out the current quests and found a religion before then, at which point new quests will proc with La Venta and Jerusalem - almost assuredly 'spread your religion' for both.

Getting a missionary out immedietly will also get my GPT out of the dumps in a quick manner. 

So yeah, here's hoping CFCJesterfool isn't going to beat me with Stonehenge, as that seems to be his likely play to get a religion of his own. Due to the fact that I can run two district projects, I don't think Jpper007 can beat me, not unless he's ready to sink a chop or two into this venture. 

Now for the bad news. 



Woden figured out that the name of the game here is farming up a storm. Early aggression is near impossible, the imperative to get up-to-date military units almost nonexistant. Thus, the best thing to do is spam out campuses/farm up a storm. He's making good use of Brazil's jungle adjacency bonus there. 

At any rate, I believe he's finished two campuses, but I cannot confirm it. Leaving me lagging behind in science badly. 

But wait! All is not lost. 



Why yes, that is a 57 cog campus due to the discount. Instead of commercial hubs, I'm going to throw down a campus in each of my cities for three total. It will be a little while yet, but thankfully, I don't think I need to throw all three down at the same time to get the discount. I believe from my previous experience that the discount applies simply if you have below the average of that district type completed. Although, I may have gotten cheap Holy Sites for both cities last time due to it not updating in the middle of the turn. This may require some investigation. 

At any rate, after this religious push, it's going to be campuses and builders. All that faith I'm saving up, is going to be utilized using Jesuit Education at the earliest possible moment to insta-build libraries, using faith instead of production. That, combined with the 40% discount bonus of campuses I now get and the adjacency bonuses I'm going to rack up, should keep me in decent shape on the scientific front.

[Old Harry]

Love the show Steve!

Do you think a rule about not editing posts in the diplomacy thread would be a good idea? Seems like you could be disadvantaged if you're asleep and someone posts something then edits it...