Dave Fires Up The Epstein Drive [Japan]

[oledavy]

Alrighty, time to play my last card.

[Chevalier Mal Fet]

It's a bold strategy, Cotton, let's see if it pays off for him.

I'm still following, just busy with work and Red Cross stuff so I haven't been able to talk much (or even spare much thought for the game). Still rooting for you, and hope to have some spare time for it in a few days.

[oledavy]

It's a bold strategy, Cotton, let's see if it pays off for him.

I'm still following, just busy with work and Red Cross stuff so I haven't been able to talk much (or even spare much thought for the game). Still rooting for you, and hope to have some spare time for it in a few days.

Don't worry about it! You're doing good work 

There are some potentially interesting ramifications of this tactic if I follow through. 

For one, it effectively forces Woden to scrap any plan to attack me and instead send his navy to go kill Archduke immediately. It's either that or an automatic loss. 

That's provided Archduke keeps the city. Can he burn it? I'm feel like you can raze cities you get in a peace deal. This is actually fairly critical to know. Of course, he could alternatively state he won't accept it, but people can say a lot of things in the diplo thread and do something completely different in game. I don't think Archduke can turn down a deal like that. Even if I were to take it back just a few turns later, that's essentially half a dozen free ironclads and all his WW gone. 

I hope Singaboy doesn't flip out in the interim, the risk here is alienating my ally, but hopefully he can read between the lines and see the forces at play here. It might be a bluff, it might not be, even I'm not entirely sure which it is. But either way, it potentially benefits both of us. 

I'm hoping however, that Woden simply isn't willing to run the risks associated with this, and offers me a DoF. His turn will be here in about 4 hours, and Archduke is probably already asleep for the night.

If he sends it on to me without a DoF, he's effectively trying to call my bluff. I then have two choices:

1. Don't offer up the peace treaty, none the worse off.
2. Offer the peace treaty.

Archduke can then do one of two things.

1. Accept it, keep the city.
2. Accept it, burn the city.
3. Decline it

Option 1 is great for me, options 2 and 3 effectively leave me worse off. Archduke will still win, but with less of a fine point on it, Woden may not feel compelled to alter his plans. Although, maybe he'll realize pretty quickly that I meant it when I said I would make it impossible for him to win - even without a peace treaty with Archduke.

If Archduke takes option 1 though, he instantly becomes the presumptive winner and Woden has to fight him or lose. So, Woden has to raise me and assume that neither I don't offer Archduke the city and/or Archduke doesn't keep it.

It's a big gamble for him. Getting it wrong costs him the game. With this in mind, I think he'll be inclined to take the relatively safe option of a DoF with me. The chances that I throw the game to Archduke if he doesn't take the deal are higher than the chances I win if he signs a DoF with me.

We'll see what he does.

[oledavy]

Turn 160

Well, Woden raised me by not offering a DoF. Time is a wasting, only one recourse now. 





I unfortunately don't think I'll be able to grind down the plum city of Salguerio before he gets MG's. But I certainly can raze whatever that Isthmus city is called. 

This turn I launched two sub attacks on it, and more importantly sank a frigate and pillaged 4 of his trade routes. 600 gold in the bank for battleship upgrades down the road. 

The plan is to burn his city, then pull everything back around Europa and utilize DotF to hold off his counter-attack. 

There still may be some fun ways to leverage Europa Blackmail (If one of you takes one of my cities, the other gets gifted Europa in the Peace Settlement, etc.) But I need to be careful about bluffing with it, or they won't take me seriously. 

Still, I've not entirely decided against seeking peace with Archduke next turn. The million dollar question, if any lurkers know it, is thus: 

Can you raze cities you are offered in a peace deal?

That answer will basically make up my mind. If there is even the slightest chance Archduke will raze it and I can't take it back, then I can't run the risk. 

At least the campaign in Spain is about to end. 



After the marines overrun the city next turn, we'll see how much WW I have.

[oledavy]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA 

[oledavy]

Also, does anyone know if the Venetian Arsenal applies to bought units? Or just units produced with hammers?

[Chevalier Mal Fet]

Internet says you can't raze a peacefully acquired city (source: Steam forums).

The VA does not apply to purchased units, only hammers.

[oledavy]

Internet says you can't raze a peacefully acquired city (source: Steam forums).

The VA does not apply to purchased units, only hammers.

Just looked these up this morning and confirmed them too. 

So, how about this for a scenario. 

I broker a grand peace with me, Archduke Singaboy - with the centerpiece being handing Europa over to England. I just build ships to 1t from completion in all my cities in the interim. 

Woden has no choice but to use his fleet to go take down Archduke immediately or Archduke wins. 

I recapture Europa once Woden and Archduke are fighting, finish all the ships, and upgrade to battleships. The net effect would have been to buy time and finally break the Brazil-England alliance. 

Of course, this doesn't work if Woden doesn't go after Archduke immediately. 

The alternative is I can try to weather the storm. Provided Archduke comes after me though, and doesn't just try to finish off Germany, I will be in a lot of trouble soon. There is just no way I can build enough ships to hold off both fleets, and although I will have the advantage of DoTF in spots, I will probably be hit by two first strikes. 

@Chevalier, what do you think?

[Chevalier Mal Fet]

I think you should follow through with your original plan and offer the city to Archduke. Since it's already been made, backing out now means you won't have credibility trying to use it as leverage later. Offering it to Archduke may well make him unstoppable, as his unassailable quality not only gets backed up by the VA, but also Europa's production power. I'm hoping this will leave Woden no choice but to dance to the tune you call - going after you out of spite at this point would mean he really is giving up. It's coming right as he peaks in his power curve for MGs, so this is the time you most want him fighting Archduke and not you.

Everything hinges on Woden acting in his own best interest here. I'm not confident which way he'll jump but I think it's an interesting strategy to try.

[Chevalier Mal Fet]

Woden's diplomacy sort of alters my calculations. He seems content to let Archduke win

I mean, not much you can do either way in that case.