Myrran retort

[Seravy]

For life wizards going for the "superbuffed early armorer's guild unit" tactic, it works because you have no use for mana until you produce the unit to buff...but you'd take Alchemy for that tactic anyway.
In all other cases, early access to armorer's guild is unlikely to be a problem and is unlikely to even happen.

[Seravy]

Been thinking about it, and while it's a step better than "Armorer's Guild cannot be built before turn 50", having "Armorer's Guild has a 5x BUY cost multiplier" is still super artificial and out of place.
It might be better to just let people abuse it if they really want to, it's not like it's a strategy that is fun to play or anything, they'll eventually play normal games too, right?
I mean how many people actually play the game by rushing an armorer's guild and beating everyone with a single super-buffed dragon turtle or pegasus or nightmare? You do it once or twice, then move towards something more interesting as it's pretty much mutually exclusive with actually playing the game - you don't get to cast spells except the 4 buffs or build cities or troops other than the rushed unit...

Dwarves though...that one is a real problem. With them you get enough resources to rush the armorer's guild (or golem) and still have plenty left for playing normally. And nerfing them in one area doesn't fix that, as they get a boost to their production, tax and ores individually.

[Nelphine]

Yeah for dwarves I definitely suggest a smaller Nerf but to both ores and taxes. And miners guild to be additive with dwarf ore bonus.

[Seravy]

Those would probably be super hard to do. Multiplication by 2 and addition of 50% are simple two byte instructions. Replacing them with more elaborate percentages definitely extend the size.
Besides the race works well as is EXCEPT for the ability to produce endgame units too early.

[Nelphine]

Those would probably be super hard to do. Multiplication by 2 and addition of 50% are simple two byte instructions. Replacing them with more elaborate percentages definitely extend the size.
Besides the race works well as is EXCEPT for the ability to produce endgame units too early.

Multipy by 1.4 for taxes, give banks and merchants guild.
Multiply by 1.5 for minerals.

If fixing miners guild is complicated, and you think race is good, just font worry about it.

[Seravy]

Dwarves without their double mineral just wouldn't be dwarves anymore. (and I admit that's the largest contributor to this problem)

[Nelphine]

How so? Dwarves are greedy collectors of money, and they're good at mining, but 150% is still huge.

[Seravy]

150% sounds huge but if you actually write it the normal way of "+50% bonus on minerals", not anymore. (especially not next to +100% on taxes)
Minerals are generally a small fraction of an empire's economy, and a 50% on a small fraction is unimpressive.

It's an unfortunate coincidence that minerals are most powerful in the early game because they are constants while everything else grows but nothing can be done about that.

[Nelphine]

On rich there's so many minerals its not a small fraction. So even with a smaller boost, its still impressive.

[Seravy]

Well actually, assuming a gold ore per city, which is 8(+4)=12 gold, it is a small fraction.
A city (assuming a medicore 15 population) produces 37.5 gold from taxes but this is the base amount - with roads and buildings, it's closer to 80-100. For simplicity's sake I'll assume crystals are also producing gold.
So even if I go with a pretty unreasonable assumption of literally having gold on every city, we are still looking at an overall GOLD economy boost of ~12% by saying +100% on minerals. Even if I say "and some get more than one gold or an additional silver because Rich + Myrran", we are still around 16, maybe 20%.
...and this doesn't take into account there are other resources in a player's economy which ores don't boost such as production, fame or research. Or that we converted the power bonus into the gold so that half of the economy is not included either. So the overall economic effect stays below 10%. Heck, if I compare it to the boosted dwarven taxes, it's even worse, probably not reaching 4%.

(Omniscient, with 4 out of 5 realms and only 1 book in each is 16%. More books and it's way better. Sure, that costs more picks than Myrran, and the race comes with other bonuses so the mineral being less is fine. But it shouldn't too low...)