Dave Fires Up The Epstein Drive [Japan]

[oledavy]

Turns 166-167

Believe it or not, things happened in the last few turns that weren't game-deciding battles versus Woden. 

Archduke took Toronto, and surprisingly liberated it. 



I think he really wanted the tea. He moved in a builder to improve it immediately. 

You can see how many of my TRs that killed, although I didn't get a notification that he killed my trader. 

This is not as bad as it could be. Re-running all my TRs will allow me to just about break even. Scrimping and saving, harvesting some crabs, combining lots of units into fleets, and running Coscription should allow me to get back up to 50-100. Enough to keep saving for battleship upgrades, but not get there particularly fast. 

As it happens though, Singaboy accepted the deal. 



Nice. Okay, this means about an extra 50 GPT for me once I can reroute TRs next turn. I'll also get a science off of each of these trade routes thanks to the campus. 

I would have really loved to keep this city, build a builder, and harvest those jungles and turn them into mines. Like I said, with those hills and two districts pre-build (add in the tiles it can share with Neptune), this city is about 4 builder actions away from being a really nice producer. It's just much more valuable to me in Singaboy's hands in the short-term. I need as much gold as possible n 15 turns for Battleship upgrades, not a really good coastal city in the same time frame. 

Singaboy's survivors from Trier are moving over here to defend the city, I expect I won't have that long sending TRs to this city, as Archduke still has a navy around here, this city is vulnerable to attack from the sea, and I have none of my fleet nearby. 

But, it seems for now he's busy pillaging Germany's coast with subs that would be much more threatening around Brazil. 





Somehow though, despite everthing, Archduke's score is still higher than me. 



He still just has so much pop and cities. Additionally, he finished the Colosseum to give his civ a major shot in the arm. 



His SPT and CPT jumped noticeably. I doubt he's really hurting from WW anymore with that. 

On t167, I rerouted everything to Triton. We've had the Lisbon economy, the Toronto economy, and now we have the Triton Economy!



This turn, I swapped goverments. Turns out I won't need National Identity or Logistics. I took out Liberalism - I don't need the amenities as much at the moment and would rather have the gold. I can also finish Divine Right and swap back into it pretty quickly if there is an emergency and I lose a lot of ships. 



Here is the amenities situation. 



Also, Germany asked to resign our DoF. 



More than anything else that contributed to their downfall, I think Woden and Archduke really botched their diplomacy with Germany. I think there were a number of moments Singaboy could have been convinced to turn against me, but their constant waffling on a deal - alternating between courting him and completely dismissing him - combined with their refusal to give him any workable deal just pushed him further into my camp. The losses Singaboy inflicted on Woden in particular had a massive impact on the outcome of the Battle of Beija-Flor Bay. Combined with the distraction he represented, the ships of Archduke's he sank, and the WW he inflicted, I don't think I would be in nearly as strong of a position as I am in without Singaboy.

[Chevalier Mal Fet]

Reading Archduke's message to Woden, if he goes defensive, shit, raze Brazil to the ground then sail for England. I think you need to find a way to get eyes on his fleet to confirm what he's up to.

[Chevalier Mal Fet]

oh man the updates keep rolling.

Anyway, nothing much changed. I love the new Triton-based economy - that city is worth hundreds of G to you, way better than the hammers it would have contributed. Not to mention the benefits to diplomacy with Singaboy, although I suspect Archduke may whine, thinking you're giving it to him to prevent Germany being totally conquered so he can get those cities out of occupation. When he reads the thread, he'll see it's a legit move, I think.

If Archduke freaks out and goes full turtle, I stand by my assessment of going to crush Woden now. The right move for him is to attack now - the power curve just favors you from here on out. More ships, from the VA. More science, more culture, which means ultimately even his qualitative GA advantage will disappear. Delay will only weaken his position - so let's hope he does it!

Think about how easily he would have rolled over this game if you hadn't started that Venetian Arsenal project so long ago.

[oledavy]

I'm going to interject here to complain for a moment about the Minas Gerais being Civ 6's idea of a unique Brazilian uber-unit.

Look, my hobby is naval history (I'm a history/English teacher by trade). I've got most of Friedman's battleship books on my shelf. And, frankly, the idea of the MG is ridiculous. A late-industrial unit capable of smashing even modern battleships, for cheap production costs to let you cram out a bunch? Maybe makes sense for game balance, but historically this is nonsense.

So basically in the late 19th century the South American powers were doing the same thing the European powers had always done - jockeying amongst each other for influence, fighting wars over territory (the Pacific War) or all-out wars of annihilation (the Champas War wiped out most of Paraguay's male population to a degree I've never seen equalled, not even in WWII Germany or USSR). Part of this jockeying, of course, was battleships - any modern country had to have modern battleships!

So Brazil was building their own homegrown BBs, but then the English, Americans, and Italians started coming out with Dreadnought-class designs and made any pre-Dreadnought ship totally obsolete. Most people know Dreadnought, but in case you're unfamiliar, in brief: She had an all big-gun armament, instead of a mixed big and medium-armament (this made fire control much easier and enabled greatly increased engagement range over pre-Dreads), and she had turbine engines instead of reciprocating, which enabled her to run at higher speeds at a longer time. In short, Dreadnought could hold any pre-dreadnought outside her range and pound her to death without the other poor bastard getting a chance to reply.

So here are the Brazilians with a bunch of obsolete ships coming down the slipways. So, they do the logical thing: they scrap their native designs and buy a pair of dreadnoughts from Britain. Did the British sell their shiniest, best ships? Of course not! Dreadnought was launched in 1906, the Minais Gerais was launched in 1910 - but in those 4 years the British had already built the first superdreadnought.

So the MGs were already slightly out of date when they were commissioned. Their 12 12-inch guns were relatively weak (most navies were moving to 14 inch or even 16 inch guns), the quadruple triple-turrets were unwieldy and difficult to use, the fire control was out of date, and the boilers were not up to modern stands. Ultimately the Brazilian government wisely decided to cancel the 3rd member of the class (she was sold to the Ottoman Empire in 1913 instead, but at the outbreak of WWI the British seized her and renamed her the Agincourt, which helped drive the Ottomans into the Central Powers' arms). The two completed ships, Minais Gerais and Sao Paolo, were delivered and operated in the Brazilian navy for decades. They were involved in the famous Revolt of the Lash mutiny, and both ships helped put down a handful of uprisings, but otherwise they never fired a shot in anger, even during WWII (when Brazil was an Allied power) - the venerable ships were simply too vulnerable to face a modern navy, while (by way of contrast) British, Italian, American, and Japanese ships laid down at approximately the same time all served with distinction in the war.

Long story short: The MG class was a cheap export battleship the Brazilians bought to bully their neighbors, they were out of date from the moment their hulls touched water, they never accomplished anything of note, and were finally all scrapped. Makes no sense as a Brazilian uber UU.

Preaching to the choir here 

I'm doing a Masters in history right now with an aim to complete a PhD. My work these days is primarily early 20th century Japanese history and World Systems methodology, but I have a strong hobbyist interest in naval history. Completely agree with you on all points. 

I think they just wanted to have a civ with an uber battleship and decided on Brazil. Remember, it's a game that uses history for flavor, it's not a historical game   

That being said, I think Brazil was a weird civ to give the MG to. It doesn't really synergize with anything else in their kit. Then again, it's so busted maybe it doesn't have to...

[oledavy]

Reading Archduke's message to Woden, if he goes defensive, shit, raze Brazil to the ground then sail for England. I think you need to find a way to get eyes on his fleet to confirm what he's up to.

Right now, I'm leaning towards keeping most of my fleet on standby around Lysithea, and using superfluous elements to grab some easy low-hanging fruit in the area - Lisbon, Tijuca, Beija-Flor. 

If Archduke goes defensive, I'm pretty much content to let him and burn what I easily can of Woden's in the interim. I can just wait for battleships, produce as much gold and as many frigates as possible, and go on a world tour. Archduke will get stronger in the interim, but not as strong as I will get. 

We shall see though. Right now I have pickets north of Woden to try and figure out where Archduke's fleet is. If there appears to be an opening, I'lll slam it home and drive for Bohemian Rhapsody. At present though, being cautious is less risky and doesn't make my position any weaker. 

I also smell a concession from their posts in the diplo thread. We'll see what happens when Woden gets the turn.

[oledavy]

Not to mention the benefits to diplomacy with Singaboy, although I suspect Archduke may whine, thinking you're giving it to him to prevent Germany being totally conquered so he can get those cities out of occupation. 

Maybe. I hope not. I would rather this game end without additional drama. 

For what it's worth, the city is easily taken by Archduke (even more so in some ways than Singaboy's remaining cities), if Archduke wants it. It's coastal, no walls, no forces defending it. 

I actually don't see Archduke being able to finish off Singaboy though, not with three inland cities still standing. The Germans just have too much army for him to overwhelm without a massive ground force of his own. 

Also, Singaboy paid for the city fair and square, it wasn't gifted to him.

[oledavy]

Turn 168

Archduke is aggressively moving in Norway to retake Deimos. 



However, my frigate and scout in the area are hot on his heels. I should actually be able to retake Toronto next turn unless he invests the city between rounds. 



As expected, lost 2 ironclads. Fair enough, 3 MGs and 1 MG fleet for three (unpromoted) ironclads is an awesome trade. I finished off his fleet with one of my next frigate fleets. 

I detailed 5 ships to take Lisbon. 



It was a coinflip to win. Thankfully I won it and burned the city to the ground. 



That should put some hurt on the economies of the alliance. 

Additionally, a couple of my subs promoted to get 50 gold from each coastal raid, and I'm using them to burn down Brazil's east coast. Slowly earning money for battleships....

Anyway, other than the Lisbon force, all of my ships are headed for Lysithea. A knight and scout go ashore next turn to prepare to take Tijuca. I added two more frigates to my fleet this turn. Two more ironclads and two more frigates are being added next turn. I continue to consolidate some of my units into fleets. 

I'll finish reforming and healing the fleet in the next turn or two, then we can start slowly, cautiously, moving towards Salgueiro. I don't know if Archduke's fleet is currently in transit or defending his homeland, but I have to be ready for either possibility.

Here is the final deployment: 



Though Woden is largely neutered at this point, Archduke's power remains concerning. 



I think most of it is land-based military though. 

Singaboy and I resigned our alliance. 



Without liberalism, my amenities situation is considerably worse, but -1 in each city isn't the end of the world. 



I can swap back into Liberalism if I start losing more units and need to get it back under control.

[Chevalier Mal Fet]

Looks good. Keep the fleet concentrated and ready to respond to the English, while still taking advantage of Brazilian vulnerability. Will you press on to Bejia-Flor? It's not a naval production city, but he won't be able to hold it with any land troops thanks to that crazy isthmus letting you blast any units there to ruin.

I feel good. Either way Archduke chooses, I think this one is in the bag. If he attacks, then you meet his fleet at sea and destroy it. If he holds back, you burn Brazil to the ground and THEN come after him. Either way, things look good for the OIA.

[Chevalier Mal Fet]

@ Oledavy

Triton? Really? I do not remember this shit happening for Norway.
Not going to even comment on this further.

Not to mention the benefits to diplomacy with Singaboy, although I suspect Archduke may whine, thinking you're giving it to him to prevent Germany being totally conquered so he can get those cities out of occupation. 

Maybe. I hope not. I would rather this game end without additional drama. 

For what it's worth, the city is easily taken by Archduke (even more so in some ways than Singaboy's remaining cities), if Archduke wants it. It's coastal, no walls, no forces defending it. 

I actually don't see Archduke being able to finish off Singaboy though, not with three inland cities still standing. The Germans just have too much army for him to overwhelm without a massive ground force of his own. 

Also, Singaboy paid for the city fair and square, it wasn't gifted to him.

Called that one. Is it worth dropping a line in the diplo thread to avoid the drama? He'll know the city is propping up your economy and that might stir him to try to come raze it, but it might soothe his feelings and this is meant to be a game. Eh. No big deal either way.

[oledavy]

Called that one. Is it worth dropping a line in the diplo thread to avoid the drama? He'll know the city is propping up your economy and that might stir him to try to come raze it, but it might soothe his feelings and this is meant to be a game. Eh. No big deal either way.

Eh, I think I'll just leave things where they stand for now. I'm kinda over the diplo thread at this point. 

Although, this does raise some interesting questions of intentionality for me. If cheese occurs as a by-product of other priorities, is it still cheese?

However, if I wanted to keep Singaboy alive, clearly I would have sold him a safer city than a coastal one in Spain, I would have sold him something like Enceladus or Halimede. I'm sure Archduke will realize this before too long and come raze it to wreck my economy, so I don't intend to help him along. 

Quick report, as I'm about to head out for the day. 

Turn 169



Singaboy wasn't lying. I guess Archduke is just leaving Brazil to rot on the vine. As soon as I reform my fleet, I will be moving it into his northern gulf to take Salgueiro and Beija-Flor. Local relatively safe conquests while waiting on Steel. 

This makes Archduke's frustration in the diplo thread make more sense, although I still can't see how he's going to overrun Germany before I get battleships. We shall see what happens though. 

Tijuca fell this turn. 



I kept it and renamed it Eris. With two districts (one of them commercial), I can run liberalism to make it cost only 1 amenity. I'm also going to try and keep the triple-districted Beija-Flor (with an ED at that). These cities don't add to my economy in a huge way, but the opportunity cost is low and it should have a demoralizing effect on Woden. 

I didn't get a picture of it, but I also recaptured Toronto this turn, keeping it this time. At 2 pop, it doesn't cost amenities, and it gives me access to another harbor and the tea 

Archduke has two muskets ready to counter-attack, in addition to the three around Deimos. We'll see if my two frigates in the region can keep him at bay. All land versus all sea. 

In the south, I got shot by an invisible MG. 



Retreated pretty quickly. 

I pillaged 200 worth of gold with my submarines this turn, the stockpile for battleship upgrading is increasing nicely 

Here is the fleet. 



I added four more ships to it this turn. The consolidation into fleets continues. 11 turns to battleships. I think I can have enough frigates and money to upgrade about ~15 battleship fleets when the time comes. This will make city-conquests completely trivial. I'm going to continue to play cautiously in the interim, trying to keep as many frigates in particular alive, and then, when I upgrade and grab the next Great Admiral (the 1st Harbor Shipping Project came in this turn), go all out to win.